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““The other is there is some other ‘unconventional’ mechanism, such as quantum entanglement or electromagnetic radiation”

If they don’t know about Physics why make themselves look daft to those who do by inserting random phrases to pretend otherwise?”

Michael Hyland is one of my lecturers, let me assure you he was only joking about that. He’s a funny guy. Insane… but funny. His current work on spirituality and its effect on health is interesting stuff.

Hmm… As I’ve already written to Ben, the idea that homeopathy doesn’t cause side effects isn’t true. Forget “aggravations”, these are bone fide “adverse effects”. Dipankar Chakraborti described three Indian patients in the Journal of Toxicology – Clinical Toxicology (now called Clinical Toxicology) who suffered arsenic poisoning after ingesting homeopathic arsenic [1]. Another study in the same journal nearly twenty years ago by Harry Kerr and Leon Saryan of the Wisconsin ACL Industrial Toxicology Laboratory noted that two of six homeopathic preparations tested contained “notable quantities” of arsenic [2]. Not good, since prolonged exposure to arsenic has been linked with cancer, diabetes, skin thickening, liver disease, digestive problems and nervous system disorders.

The safety of other homeopathic remedies is also questionable: David Anick at the Harvard Medical School has found that commercially prepared homeopathic remedies can contain traces of ethanol, acetate, formate, methanol and acetone [3]; Spanish, German and Mexican researchers have all reported mercury poisoning due to homeopathic remedies, including in one six-month old baby [4-8]. I could find several other cases of severe side effects: homeopathic mandrake caused anaphylactic shock in one patient [9]; homeopathic slimming droplets (LOCO X112). were found to contain thyroid extract and diethylpropione, an amphetamine-like noradrenergic anorectic agent banned in Belgium [10]; in another case (abstract and paper sadly unavailable) a patient seems to have died from acute pancreatitis due to homeopathy [11]. Another remedy caused contact dermatitis [12], and the same remedy was in a course of homeopathic medicine given to a child who developed autoimmune blistering (whether it was caused by the homeopathy or by the failure to treat properly isn’t clear) [13].

What was that about homeopathy having no side effects?

Matt

References:
1. Chakraborti D, Mukherjee SC, Saha KC, Chowdhury UK, Rahman MM, Sengupta MK: Arsenic toxicity from homeopathic treatment. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 2003;41(7):963-7.
2. Kerr HD, Saryan LA: Arsenic content of homeopathic medicines. J Toxicol Clin Toxicol 1986;24(5):451-9.
3. Anick DJ: High sensitivity 1H-NMR spectroscopy of homeopathic remedies made in water. BMC Complement Altern Med 2004, 4:15.
4. Montoya-Cabrera MA, Rubio-Rodriguez S, Velazquez-Gonzalez E, Avila Montoya S: [Mercury poisoning caused by a homeopathic drug]. Gac Med Mex 1991, 127(3):267-70. Article in Spanish.
5. Audicana M, Bernedo N, Gonzalez I, Munoz D, Fernandez E, Gastaminza G: An unusual case of baboon syndrome due to mercury present in a homeopathic medicine. Contact Dermatitis 2001, 45(3):185.
6. Wiesmuller GA, Weishoff-Houben M, Brolsch O, Dott W, Schulze-Robbecke R: Environmental agents as cause of health disorders in children presented at an outpatient unit of environmental medicine. Int J Hyg Environ Health 2002, 205(5):329-35
7. Olujohungbe A, Fields PA, Sandford AF, Hoffbrand AV: Heavy metal intoxication from homeopathic and herbal remedies. Postgrad Med J 1994 Oct;70(828):764.
8. Spoerke DG: Toxicity of homeopathic products. Vet Hum Toxicol 1989, 31(3):259-60.
9. Helbling A, Brander KA, Pichler WJ, Muller UB: Anaphylactic shock after subcutaneous injection of mandragora D3, a homeopathic drug. J Allergy Clin Immunol. 2000 Nov;106(5):989-90.
10. Mortelmans LJ, Biesemans L, Van Rossom P: Homeopathic products, not as innocent and safe as they seem? A case report. Eur J Emerg Med. 2004 Aug;11(4):242
11. Barquero Romero J, Redondo Lopez JM, Galeano Diaz F, Perez Miranda M: [Fatal acute pancreatitis in a patient who received an homeopathic treatment]. Med Clin (Barc). 2004 Mar 6;122(8):318-9. Spanish.
12. Cardinali C, Francalanci S, Giomi B, Caproni M, Sertoli A, Fabbri P: Contact dermatitis from Rhus toxicodendron in a homeopathic remedy. J Am Acad Dermatol. 2004 Jan;50(1):150-1.
13. Kuenzli S, Grimaitre M, Krischer J, Saurat JH, Calza AM, Borradori L: Childhood bullous pemphigoid: report of a case with life-threatening course during homeopathy treatment. Pediatr Dermatol 2004, 21(2):160-3.

I was wondering about where you mention that patients are more likely to give the response that the doctor wants, or that the patient thinks the doctor wants. This is something that makes sense, of course – but is there a literature reference to show this effect?

I’m currently doing a literature review of homepathy (it’s not faring very well, in case you couldn’t predict that), and while me saying “patients gave the answers that were wanted” is all well and good, if I can’t back it up, it just sounds like I’m being a bitch.

I’ve been trying to find something on this since Friday, and the closest sorts of things I can find are Milgram’s experiments, or maybe the Asch conformity experiments. But they’re not really saying what I want to.

I don’t know any psychology students, and I have no idea where to look, or what to look for. Any help in finding a source/reference would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, my project supervisor told me about this site, so he’ll probably read this. Hope I’m not breaking any rules >_>

I know enough science to throw in the buzzwords, enough medical training to spout fancy names for conditions, easy access to tap water and small brown bottles and a very good line in Bull S***, which should also answer Andrew T’s question as to what the B stands for in BScHom

“The other is there is some other ‘unconventional’ mechanism, such as quantum entanglement or electromagnetic radiation”

If they don’t know about Physics why make themselves look daft to those who do by inserting random phrases to pretend otherwise? Electromagnetic radiation is largely well understood and any effects would be relatively easy to detect. Quantum entanglement is a fascinatingly strange phenenomena, but it’s only important in very specific circumstances and isn’t the new magical reason for everything it seems to be touted as these days.

www.the-ba.net/the-ba/CurrentIssues/ReportsandPublications/ScienceAndPublicAffairs/SPADec05/_Homeopathy.htm

Cheers

I’ll keep you all informed whenever I hear anything, so we can make an accurate comparisson with proper medical services

Well, even homeopaths pretend to have side effects, it’s just that they call them “aggravations”. As ever, we know homeopathy better than its feckwit practitioners.

It’s not that 70% of the people who went to homeopathy hospitals reported that their health had improved, it’s that 70% of the people who reported, reported that their health had improved. Therefore, 30% of those gullible (or desparate) people who thought that they’d try homeopathy, and still reported back, found that their health hadn’t improved. This study actually is a shock because it finds that homeopathy doesn’t work for nearly a third of people who are predisposed to expect it to work.

Also, the reporting above doesn’t make it clear that everyone reported. I’d have thought that it was in the interest of the homeopathy peddlars to report if this was the case. Therefore, some people didn’t return to report on their condition. I can only think of three reasons why people didn’t return:
1) They were miraculously cured and so didn’t need to see another doctor/quack.
2) They weren’t miraculously cured and returned to their GP, who advised them against going back to the homeopathist (is that the right word?)
3) They died.

I’d say it’s a pretty big reporting bias if you only report on people with chronic conditions who survived to tell you that they feel better.

(sorry if this very old joke has already been trotted out, I’m a bit of a stim-resp engine).