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	<title>Comments on: Thalidomide and Conspiracies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: apothecary</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6819</link>
		<dc:creator>apothecary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Aug 2006 08:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6819</guid>
		<description>Been enjoying the site for ages, first comment ventured

Re Thalidomide, its popularity was in part due to concerns over the toxicity of barbiturates, which were widely used as sedatives at the time - overdoses of which are highly toxic and difficultt to manage - or at least that&#039;s what the marketing said. 

 I once worked in a hospital DI centre where we had some old promotional material for thalidomide from the time.  There was a poster of a toddler with a  bottle of mummy&#039;s tablets, and the strapline was something to the effect that he could be in danger of a fatal barb OD, so the caring, responsible GP should prescribe thalidomide 

(presumably, the idea of using child-resistant containers and keeping meds out of sight and reach of children, or even that people didn&#039;t really need the seadtive, hadn&#039;t dawned on people).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Been enjoying the site for ages, first comment ventured</p>
<p>Re Thalidomide, its popularity was in part due to concerns over the toxicity of barbiturates, which were widely used as sedatives at the time &#8211; overdoses of which are highly toxic and difficultt to manage &#8211; or at least that&#8217;s what the marketing said. </p>
<p> I once worked in a hospital DI centre where we had some old promotional material for thalidomide from the time.  There was a poster of a toddler with a  bottle of mummy&#8217;s tablets, and the strapline was something to the effect that he could be in danger of a fatal barb OD, so the caring, responsible GP should prescribe thalidomide </p>
<p>(presumably, the idea of using child-resistant containers and keeping meds out of sight and reach of children, or even that people didn&#8217;t really need the seadtive, hadn&#8217;t dawned on people).</p>
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		<title>By: BobP</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6809</link>
		<dc:creator>BobP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Jul 2006 20:43:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6809</guid>
		<description>Hi, Ben -
The actual events were a bit before my time. The Sunday Times was prevented by an injuction in 1972 from publishing an article criticising Distillers&#039; (the UK licence holder) handling of the affair and in particular the compensation offered to victims. After a number of appeals, the injunction was overturned in 1979 and they published the story. Via your contacts at the Guardian, do you have access to their archives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Ben -<br />
The actual events were a bit before my time. The Sunday Times was prevented by an injuction in 1972 from publishing an article criticising Distillers&#8217; (the UK licence holder) handling of the affair and in particular the compensation offered to victims. After a number of appeals, the injunction was overturned in 1979 and they published the story. Via your contacts at the Guardian, do you have access to their archives?</p>
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		<title>By: FlammableFlower</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6787</link>
		<dc:creator>FlammableFlower</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 21:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6787</guid>
		<description>Just to through my oar in: I thought it was originally marketed as an anti-emetic, and then was &quot;off-label&quot; prescribed to pregnant women with morning sickness. There&#039;s an article in this week&#039;s New Scientist on the pros and cons of off-label perscribing. Can&#039;t get hold of it at the moment, but it was about a drug designed for serious arrhythmia (spelling?) that became prescribed for much milder arrhythmia and was believed to cause 50,000+ unecessary deaths as it actually made things worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to through my oar in: I thought it was originally marketed as an anti-emetic, and then was &#8220;off-label&#8221; prescribed to pregnant women with morning sickness. There&#8217;s an article in this week&#8217;s New Scientist on the pros and cons of off-label perscribing. Can&#8217;t get hold of it at the moment, but it was about a drug designed for serious arrhythmia (spelling?) that became prescribed for much milder arrhythmia and was believed to cause 50,000+ unecessary deaths as it actually made things worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6778</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 20:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6778</guid>
		<description>Re rehabilitation of thalidomide, well, arsenic, deadly nightshade, and rat poison are or have been prescribed to patients by doctors fully aware of the negative associations of these substances.

Re &quot;Widespread use of the drug in West Germany was only halted when the paediatrician, Lenz, publicized its association with the birth of nearly 4,000 children exhibiting abnormal limb growth&quot; - I think &quot;only&quot; may be unfortunate.  Obviously you&#039;d continue using an evidently effective drug while there was no evidence of problems with it.

I think the only-one-isomer-was-tested story is not sound - rather that they&#039;d not really investigated the question of isomers.  When they did, and found that one was the effective drug and one was the cause of side-effects, they got excited about it again until they found that each naturally turns into the other when used - which of course weakens (well, complicates) the story further if you wanted a simple demonstration of Why Isomers Matter, but you can probably gloss over the nasty fiddly bits, as long as you don&#039;t leave them with the impression that the problem was solved.

Another apparent mystery at one point, I think I recall, was a claim that people affected by their mother&#039;s thalidomide use went on to to have children with similar disabilities.  What came of that one?  I&#039;d guess genetics...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re rehabilitation of thalidomide, well, arsenic, deadly nightshade, and rat poison are or have been prescribed to patients by doctors fully aware of the negative associations of these substances.</p>
<p>Re &#8220;Widespread use of the drug in West Germany was only halted when the paediatrician, Lenz, publicized its association with the birth of nearly 4,000 children exhibiting abnormal limb growth&#8221; &#8211; I think &#8220;only&#8221; may be unfortunate.  Obviously you&#8217;d continue using an evidently effective drug while there was no evidence of problems with it.</p>
<p>I think the only-one-isomer-was-tested story is not sound &#8211; rather that they&#8217;d not really investigated the question of isomers.  When they did, and found that one was the effective drug and one was the cause of side-effects, they got excited about it again until they found that each naturally turns into the other when used &#8211; which of course weakens (well, complicates) the story further if you wanted a simple demonstration of Why Isomers Matter, but you can probably gloss over the nasty fiddly bits, as long as you don&#8217;t leave them with the impression that the problem was solved.</p>
<p>Another apparent mystery at one point, I think I recall, was a claim that people affected by their mother&#8217;s thalidomide use went on to to have children with similar disabilities.  What came of that one?  I&#8217;d guess genetics&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: monkeychicken</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6763</link>
		<dc:creator>monkeychicken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Jul 2006 12:36:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6763</guid>
		<description>From fact to fiction:

One of the stories running through Irvine Welsh&#039;s book &quot;Ecstacy&quot; (not the one that is being turned into a film) strongly echoes what happened with thalidomide. The story portrays the &quot;scientists&quot; as knowing that the drug would cause birth defects and were paid off by the drug company. It is possible ths story has entered pop culture and could have been mixed up with the real truth (whatever that is).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From fact to fiction:</p>
<p>One of the stories running through Irvine Welsh&#8217;s book &#8220;Ecstacy&#8221; (not the one that is being turned into a film) strongly echoes what happened with thalidomide. The story portrays the &#8220;scientists&#8221; as knowing that the drug would cause birth defects and were paid off by the drug company. It is possible ths story has entered pop culture and could have been mixed up with the real truth (whatever that is).</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Aust</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6751</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Aust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 16:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6751</guid>
		<description>Mushy P wrote: &quot;Dr Aust - I sense that you find optical isomerism less than 100% fascinating. Heresy. Iâ€™ve never heard anything so inflammatory&quot;

- Have to &#039;fess up on optical isomerism - it was the ludicrous way they had THREE different systems for classifying it that got me. (dl, DL and RS)... I have to admit to a B.Sc. degree in Chemistry  but always prefered (bio)organic and transition metal chemistry. Although in my career in biomedical research it is the physical chemistry I (reluctantly) studied that has proved the most useful... another of life&#039;s little ironies.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Art West wrote (re doctors knowledge anbout the stuff in the late 50s) &quot;Of course, it could have been a lucky hunch, but if he had any real knowledge, however vague, on which to base his opinion then that information was probably pretty widespread to have reached a small town Midlands GP.&quot;

- I would suspect it was because the drug was very experimental in 56-57, plus the dictum &quot;don&#039;t mess with what you don&#039;t understand&quot;, i.e. a 50s doc would probably know that loads MUST be going on in the first three months of pregnancy, but would also know the details of the underlying processes were pretty much a mystery. To give a powerful drug during that period if not absolutely needed would seem like a needless risk (it is quite interesting that the modern medical view of early pregnancy, based on a lot more knowledge, seems prett y much to bear out this piece of ancient wisdom). I was also born in the thalidomide era, though rather later, and my mother said she refused the drug for just this reason when the doctor suggested it for morning sickness.   

------------------------------------------------------

Coracle wrote:

&quot;The rehabilitation of thalidomide has always amazed me. In combination with dexamethasone itâ€™s now treatment of choice for multiple myeloma, I seem to remember a documentary some years ago about its use in untreatable ulcers.

I believe it has an anti-TNF mode of action which I think is the presumed mode of action for its anti tumour activities&quot;

- It seems to do a bunch of things, anti-angiogenic actions, anti-cytokine, modulating cell adhesion etc. It intercalates into DNA at lots of sites, though NOT randomly, probably accounting for the widespread effects.

My reading was that treating leprosy (or &quot;Hansen&#039;s Disease&quot; as the Yanks rather confusingly call it) was the major modern use, but it has been tried for a lot of other stuff, as mentioned by others here. Some kinds of Lupus (SLE) is another example.

Of course, re-use of it has sadly led in some places (e.g. Brazil) to MORE birth defects, as the stuff is so potent in its teratogenic effects that doctors AND patients have to be INCREDIBLY careful with it. One dose at the &quot;wrong&quot; time in early pregnancy is enough to cause tragic consequences, and it gets to all sort of places in the body. For instance, if a man takes thalidomide it the stuff can be detected in his ejaculate (strange but true) - so potentially it could affect any woman who he gets pregnant. In the US when the FDA re-licenced it they passed special rules about its use to try and avoid more childhood deformities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mushy P wrote: &#8220;Dr Aust &#8211; I sense that you find optical isomerism less than 100% fascinating. Heresy. Iâ€™ve never heard anything so inflammatory&#8221;</p>
<p>- Have to &#8216;fess up on optical isomerism &#8211; it was the ludicrous way they had THREE different systems for classifying it that got me. (dl, DL and RS)&#8230; I have to admit to a B.Sc. degree in Chemistry  but always prefered (bio)organic and transition metal chemistry. Although in my career in biomedical research it is the physical chemistry I (reluctantly) studied that has proved the most useful&#8230; another of life&#8217;s little ironies.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Art West wrote (re doctors knowledge anbout the stuff in the late 50s) &#8220;Of course, it could have been a lucky hunch, but if he had any real knowledge, however vague, on which to base his opinion then that information was probably pretty widespread to have reached a small town Midlands GP.&#8221;</p>
<p>- I would suspect it was because the drug was very experimental in 56-57, plus the dictum &#8220;don&#8217;t mess with what you don&#8217;t understand&#8221;, i.e. a 50s doc would probably know that loads MUST be going on in the first three months of pregnancy, but would also know the details of the underlying processes were pretty much a mystery. To give a powerful drug during that period if not absolutely needed would seem like a needless risk (it is quite interesting that the modern medical view of early pregnancy, based on a lot more knowledge, seems prett y much to bear out this piece of ancient wisdom). I was also born in the thalidomide era, though rather later, and my mother said she refused the drug for just this reason when the doctor suggested it for morning sickness.   </p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Coracle wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;The rehabilitation of thalidomide has always amazed me. In combination with dexamethasone itâ€™s now treatment of choice for multiple myeloma, I seem to remember a documentary some years ago about its use in untreatable ulcers.</p>
<p>I believe it has an anti-TNF mode of action which I think is the presumed mode of action for its anti tumour activities&#8221;</p>
<p>- It seems to do a bunch of things, anti-angiogenic actions, anti-cytokine, modulating cell adhesion etc. It intercalates into DNA at lots of sites, though NOT randomly, probably accounting for the widespread effects.</p>
<p>My reading was that treating leprosy (or &#8220;Hansen&#8217;s Disease&#8221; as the Yanks rather confusingly call it) was the major modern use, but it has been tried for a lot of other stuff, as mentioned by others here. Some kinds of Lupus (SLE) is another example.</p>
<p>Of course, re-use of it has sadly led in some places (e.g. Brazil) to MORE birth defects, as the stuff is so potent in its teratogenic effects that doctors AND patients have to be INCREDIBLY careful with it. One dose at the &#8220;wrong&#8221; time in early pregnancy is enough to cause tragic consequences, and it gets to all sort of places in the body. For instance, if a man takes thalidomide it the stuff can be detected in his ejaculate (strange but true) &#8211; so potentially it could affect any woman who he gets pregnant. In the US when the FDA re-licenced it they passed special rules about its use to try and avoid more childhood deformities.</p>
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		<title>By: poohbear</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6750</link>
		<dc:creator>poohbear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 14:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6750</guid>
		<description>Just heard reports on local news that American manufaxcturer has increased price of thalidomide to BC Cancer Institute, which was using it in the treatment of certain forms of cancer from about $30 per month to about $1,000 per month per patient. This is bloody ridiculous for a drug that has been around for 50 years, and pure profiteering on the part of the drug company. Not sure which one it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just heard reports on local news that American manufaxcturer has increased price of thalidomide to BC Cancer Institute, which was using it in the treatment of certain forms of cancer from about $30 per month to about $1,000 per month per patient. This is bloody ridiculous for a drug that has been around for 50 years, and pure profiteering on the part of the drug company. Not sure which one it is.</p>
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		<title>By: coracle</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6748</link>
		<dc:creator>coracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 12:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6748</guid>
		<description>The rehabilitation of thalidomide has always amazed me. In combination with dexamethasone it&#039;s now treatment of choice for multiple myeloma, I seem to remember a documentary some years ago about its use in untreatable ulcers.

I believe it has an anti-TNF mode of action which I think is the presumed mode of action for its anti tumour activities.

I&#039;ve taken a quick look at the social history of medicine paper, I don&#039;t think it&#039;s massively useful. It&#039;s short on details of the testing that it went through and focuses on the regulatory responses since the exposure of its teratogenic effects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The rehabilitation of thalidomide has always amazed me. In combination with dexamethasone it&#8217;s now treatment of choice for multiple myeloma, I seem to remember a documentary some years ago about its use in untreatable ulcers.</p>
<p>I believe it has an anti-TNF mode of action which I think is the presumed mode of action for its anti tumour activities.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve taken a quick look at the social history of medicine paper, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s massively useful. It&#8217;s short on details of the testing that it went through and focuses on the regulatory responses since the exposure of its teratogenic effects.</p>
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		<title>By: A Reader</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6745</link>
		<dc:creator>A Reader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 10:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6745</guid>
		<description>This turned up in an academic search.  Unfortunately my institution doesn&#039;t have access to a full copy, but you can buy the individual article online, if you think it looks any use.

A Tale of Two Experts: Thalidomide and Political Engagement in the United States and West Germany

Author: Daemmrich A.1

Source: Social History of Medicine, Volume 15, Number 1, April 2002, pp. 137-158(22)

Publisher: Oxford University Press


Abstract

The physicians, Widukind Lenz and Frances Kelsey, played crucial roles in the thalidomide drama of the early 1960s. Widespread use of the drug in West Germany was only halted when the paediatrician, Lenz, publicized its association with the birth of nearly 4,000 children exhibiting abnormal limb growth. Few cases were reported in the United States because Kelsey, a medical officer at the US Food and Drug Administration, repeatedly delayed thalidomide&#039;s marketing approval. Experts in both countries were expected to demonstrate publicly the professional â€˜objectivityâ€™ of medicine and the institutional â€˜disinterestednessâ€™ of regulatory bodies. These norms were invoked both by industry representatives seeking to undermine the two experts and by critics desiring stronger regulatory controls. Comparing Lenz with Kelsey demonstrates how institutional structures shape an expert&#039;s social and scientific roles. While the United States provided important protection from external pressure for Kelsey through her regulatory position at the FDA, Lenz was open to sharp criticism, especially when giving expert testimony during a lengthy court trial. The degree of exposure to politically motivated attacks differed for these two experts; they nevertheless faced similar threats to their professional credibility and personal integrity when they publicized links between thalidomide and birth defects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This turned up in an academic search.  Unfortunately my institution doesn&#8217;t have access to a full copy, but you can buy the individual article online, if you think it looks any use.</p>
<p>A Tale of Two Experts: Thalidomide and Political Engagement in the United States and West Germany</p>
<p>Author: Daemmrich A.1</p>
<p>Source: Social History of Medicine, Volume 15, Number 1, April 2002, pp. 137-158(22)</p>
<p>Publisher: Oxford University Press</p>
<p>Abstract</p>
<p>The physicians, Widukind Lenz and Frances Kelsey, played crucial roles in the thalidomide drama of the early 1960s. Widespread use of the drug in West Germany was only halted when the paediatrician, Lenz, publicized its association with the birth of nearly 4,000 children exhibiting abnormal limb growth. Few cases were reported in the United States because Kelsey, a medical officer at the US Food and Drug Administration, repeatedly delayed thalidomide&#8217;s marketing approval. Experts in both countries were expected to demonstrate publicly the professional â€˜objectivityâ€™ of medicine and the institutional â€˜disinterestednessâ€™ of regulatory bodies. These norms were invoked both by industry representatives seeking to undermine the two experts and by critics desiring stronger regulatory controls. Comparing Lenz with Kelsey demonstrates how institutional structures shape an expert&#8217;s social and scientific roles. While the United States provided important protection from external pressure for Kelsey through her regulatory position at the FDA, Lenz was open to sharp criticism, especially when giving expert testimony during a lengthy court trial. The degree of exposure to politically motivated attacks differed for these two experts; they nevertheless faced similar threats to their professional credibility and personal integrity when they publicized links between thalidomide and birth defects.</p>
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		<title>By: MikeTheGoat</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6744</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeTheGoat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 09:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6744</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s also used to treat a complication of leprosy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s also used to treat a complication of leprosy.</p>
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		<title>By: mushyp</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6743</link>
		<dc:creator>mushyp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:42:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6743</guid>
		<description>@sockatume - I&#039;m pretty sure that it&#039;s currently on the market &lt;a href=&quot;http://cancerguide.org/rcc_thalidomide.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;being used for cancer treatment&lt;/a&gt;, because the cause of the birth defects â€” restriction of blood vessel growth â€” is a really useful property to arrest tumour development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@sockatume &#8211; I&#8217;m pretty sure that it&#8217;s currently on the market <a href="http://cancerguide.org/rcc_thalidomide.html" rel="nofollow">being used for cancer treatment</a>, because the cause of the birth defects â€” restriction of blood vessel growth â€” is a really useful property to arrest tumour development.</p>
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		<title>By: sockatume</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6742</link>
		<dc:creator>sockatume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 08:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6742</guid>
		<description>I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but hasn&#039;t thalidomide come back on the market as a general anti-nausea medicine (obviously one counterindicated for women who are pregnant or trying to have children)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I may be barking up the wrong tree here, but hasn&#8217;t thalidomide come back on the market as a general anti-nausea medicine (obviously one counterindicated for women who are pregnant or trying to have children)?</p>
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		<title>By: coracle</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6741</link>
		<dc:creator>coracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 07:51:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6741</guid>
		<description>JohnA, My mistake, thanks for the correction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JohnA, My mistake, thanks for the correction.</p>
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		<title>By: Art West</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6740</link>
		<dc:creator>Art West</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 03:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6740</guid>
		<description>I have always been told by my mother that she asked the family doctor about taking thalidomide when she was pregnant with me. He told her that he had doubts about thalidomide and dissuaded her. Given that I was born in early April 1957, he seems to have had doubts extremely early. Of course, it could have been a lucky hunch, but if he had any real knowledge, however vague, on which to base his opinion then that information was probably pretty widespread to have reached a small town Midlands GP.
In any case, I&#039;m grateful that he, for whatever reason, held that opinion as I went to school with numerous kids who were severely disabled by thalidomide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have always been told by my mother that she asked the family doctor about taking thalidomide when she was pregnant with me. He told her that he had doubts about thalidomide and dissuaded her. Given that I was born in early April 1957, he seems to have had doubts extremely early. Of course, it could have been a lucky hunch, but if he had any real knowledge, however vague, on which to base his opinion then that information was probably pretty widespread to have reached a small town Midlands GP.<br />
In any case, I&#8217;m grateful that he, for whatever reason, held that opinion as I went to school with numerous kids who were severely disabled by thalidomide.</p>
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		<title>By: John A</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6738</link>
		<dc:creator>John A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:30:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6738</guid>
		<description>Just to be explicit on coracle&#039;s point:
&quot;it was tested on rats and mice, which donâ€™t suffer the teratogenic effects&quot;

They do.  But it was just never tested on pregnant animals.
(references on the &lt;a&gt;RDS Website&lt;/a&gt; already posted)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to be explicit on coracle&#8217;s point:<br />
&#8220;it was tested on rats and mice, which donâ€™t suffer the teratogenic effects&#8221;</p>
<p>They do.  But it was just never tested on pregnant animals.<br />
(references on the <a>RDS Website</a> already posted)</p>
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		<title>By: Filias Cupio</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6737</link>
		<dc:creator>Filias Cupio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 23:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6737</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a book/series of articles/series of TV documentaries in here. Take half a dozen prominent drug/disease controversies, three real and three false alarms. Look at who the whistle-blowers were, how they were treated, how the issue gained publicity, the reactions of involved parties, who was right and who was wrong. One chapter/article/program per controversy, and a final episode on the lessons learnt: how can we decide who to trust in future controversies? How should public health bodies respond, before there is certainty about the merits of the case?

For the real health problems, thalidomide and BSE/JKD leap to mind. Other possibilities are the early stage of the AIDS epidemic, the recent drug trial near disaster, or any recent major drug recall. 

For false health problems: MMR, polio vaccine (false rumours about the vaccine caused an outbreak in  parts of Africa a few years ago), the McBride beat-up mentioned above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a book/series of articles/series of TV documentaries in here. Take half a dozen prominent drug/disease controversies, three real and three false alarms. Look at who the whistle-blowers were, how they were treated, how the issue gained publicity, the reactions of involved parties, who was right and who was wrong. One chapter/article/program per controversy, and a final episode on the lessons learnt: how can we decide who to trust in future controversies? How should public health bodies respond, before there is certainty about the merits of the case?</p>
<p>For the real health problems, thalidomide and BSE/JKD leap to mind. Other possibilities are the early stage of the AIDS epidemic, the recent drug trial near disaster, or any recent major drug recall. </p>
<p>For false health problems: MMR, polio vaccine (false rumours about the vaccine caused an outbreak in  parts of Africa a few years ago), the McBride beat-up mentioned above.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Goldacre</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6736</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Goldacre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6736</guid>
		<description>cool, i just got Galileo&#039;s Revenge off &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abebooks.co.uk&quot;&gt;abe&lt;/a&gt;. it came from kingston, jamaica, which felt nice. you&#039;ve got to love how the interweb brings a whole new flavour of second hand serendipity.

anyway, are we basically saying that anyone claiming thalidomide was a medical profession cover up is talking nonsense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>cool, i just got Galileo&#8217;s Revenge off <a href="http://www.abebooks.co.uk">abe</a>. it came from kingston, jamaica, which felt nice. you&#8217;ve got to love how the interweb brings a whole new flavour of second hand serendipity.</p>
<p>anyway, are we basically saying that anyone claiming thalidomide was a medical profession cover up is talking nonsense?</p>
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		<title>By: crichmond</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6735</link>
		<dc:creator>crichmond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 22:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6735</guid>
		<description>William McBride showed that thalidomide caused birth deformities.
He was, rightly, lionised.
Some years later he ran an unfounded campaign against bendectin and it was banned around the world, thus permanently depriving pregnant women of a safe and effective treatment.. The subject is splendidly covered in a book called Galileo&#039;s revenge: Junk Science in the Courtroom, by Peter Huber (HarperCollins 1991). It is also covered well, (as I recall from memory) in Iain Chalmers&#039;s Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>William McBride showed that thalidomide caused birth deformities.<br />
He was, rightly, lionised.<br />
Some years later he ran an unfounded campaign against bendectin and it was banned around the world, thus permanently depriving pregnant women of a safe and effective treatment.. The subject is splendidly covered in a book called Galileo&#8217;s revenge: Junk Science in the Courtroom, by Peter Huber (HarperCollins 1991). It is also covered well, (as I recall from memory) in Iain Chalmers&#8217;s Effective Care in Pregnancy and Childbirth.</p>
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		<title>By: mushyp</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6733</link>
		<dc:creator>mushyp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 21:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6733</guid>
		<description>Dr Aust - I sense that you find optical isomerism less than 100% fascinating. Heresy. I&#039;ve never heard anything so inflammatory :-)

Thanks to you and superburger for setting the record straight.

And balls to The Man.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Aust &#8211; I sense that you find optical isomerism less than 100% fascinating. Heresy. I&#8217;ve never heard anything so inflammatory <img src='http://www.badscience.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks to you and superburger for setting the record straight.</p>
<p>And balls to The Man.</p>
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		<title>By: crgn</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/07/thalidomide-and-conspiracies/comment-page-1/#comment-6732</link>
		<dc:creator>crgn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Jul 2006 20:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=269#comment-6732</guid>
		<description>I think the Sunday Times story was that Distillers (who produced the drug under licence) was quietly settling out of court and the Sunday Times&#039; angle was that they were doing it to avoid bad publicity. The 1979 ECHR ruling is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.worldlii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/1979/1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. I think the gist of it is that the ST wanted to publish an article which became the subject of an injunction based on the fact that it might constitute contempt. From what I can work out (I don&#039;t have my legal head on right now), the ECHR ruling came in 1979, which meant it was seven years between the original injuction and the time anyone could even discuss the matter in the media without risking a court case of their own.
Not a cover-up, then, more a legal filibuster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the Sunday Times story was that Distillers (who produced the drug under licence) was quietly settling out of court and the Sunday Times&#8217; angle was that they were doing it to avoid bad publicity. The 1979 ECHR ruling is <a href="http://www.worldlii.org/eu/cases/ECHR/1979/1.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. I think the gist of it is that the ST wanted to publish an article which became the subject of an injunction based on the fact that it might constitute contempt. From what I can work out (I don&#8217;t have my legal head on right now), the ECHR ruling came in 1979, which meant it was seven years between the original injuction and the time anyone could even discuss the matter in the media without risking a court case of their own.<br />
Not a cover-up, then, more a legal filibuster.</p>
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