A lot of the training is on recognising the lack of depth of knowledge we have and that there is always someone to call (normally a senior paediatrician) for advice about such things so it is not that we are all experts, we just know when to refer to one, as we do with illness (eg patient too sick for ward, go to ITU, patient too young for normal doctor, go to paeds…)

I was working in A&E and called them once and they were very nice about it

We’ve strolled from the beaten path a bit, haven’t we? Had to look up what we’re commenting on.

The problem could be with a lack of presentation to services that can recognise there is a problem for a child. Potentially a child could be kept as a “zero” by a religious group, never presented to any form of authority (born at home, never registered…) and so no authority would know to keep an eye on such a child.

Over here, the doctors would contact social services, who would most likely run an assessment on the situation and apply for a protection order if the child is seen to be in danger of serious harm whilst in it’s parents care; which of course it would be. It would then be decided by a court, but we’re not in the habit of letting children die due to a parents’ ignorance in this country.
Assuming competance on the local authorities part of course.

Interestingly, it apparently cuts both ways – i.e. some people turn to Christian Science when conventional medicine has told them there is nothing more it can do for them.

“is it not child abuse (having briefly read the wikipedia article) for them to insist that their children be treated exclusively by Christian Science if many decide that for them it is not enough?”

An interesting ethical dilemma, certainly. To set it up in a slightly loaded way: Suppose one imagines a child with a life-threatening but treatable illness (say a childhood cancer) and devout Christian Scientist parents. As I read the Wikipedia entry, a proportion of Christian Scientists would probably accept the treatment under these circumstances. BUt if they refused… what would the doctors do?

Especially in the case of a very young child (no chance of having a view of their own), I would have thought the doctors would be applying for court orders.

are there any who, when really ill, don’t turn to conventional medicine, albeit sometimes too late?

is it not child abuse (having briefly read the wikipedia article) for them to insist that their children be treated exclusively by Christian Science if many decide that for them it is not enough?

The explanation is presumably that Christian Science as a church always had fairly wealthy demographics – i.e. Christian Scientists were less likely to be poor. Because of this they were healthier, since the connections between wealth/class and health were no doubt even more marked in the 19th century than in the late 20th, especially in the absence of cures for things like epidemic infectious diseases.

Nowadays Christian Scientists, not surprisingly in view of their tendency to eschew conventional medicine, seem to do less well heath-wise than the average. See Wikipedia for details.

Woman to Christian Science minister: “I’m worried about my husband, he’s very poorly”

CS M “No, no, you should say that he is under the impression that he’s very poorly”

A few weeks go by, and CS M sees W again

CS M “Now, why so downcast? How is your husband these days, is he still under the impression that he is unwell?”

W “I don’t think so”

CS M “Oh,well that’s a blessing!”

W “Not really sir, you see, now he’s under the impression that he’s dead”

ROFL? Well, perhaps not.

Should also say that Christian Science bears as much similarity to Christianity as it does to Science (IMVHO).

this one is!

I must admit much of my info comes from a bried read through of the osteopathy and chiropractic entries in wikipedia and then glancing at their GMC equivalent websites. The difference between their origins and ours (as a GMC registered physician) is that I do not treat people based upon the principles of Galen or Hippocrites, I have new reasons they work, if they work at all (eg St John’s Wort – magic or neurochemistry? or poppy juice, because its from opium poppies or because I gathered them at midnight and have prayed over them?).

This was supposed to be a short post…

I was once referred to one following an extended period mostly spent on my back due to an accident. Improvement was very rapid and pain relief immense.

However this was for a purely mechanical problem as the human body is not adapted to spending life in bed for months at a time esp following impacts bad enough to smash bones up.

I don;t really view Osteopaths as CAM. They are effective for mechanical problems where manipulation of the muscles and bones will physically re-allign the body to it’s proper posture.

I’d not go to see them over a medical condition though. horses for courses etc….

Either way, it’s still bollocks.
I mean, what is going on? After all the scientific progress the human race has made over the last 100 years, why does such a large subset of society feel obliged to regress us back down the developmental ladder? FFS.

If you go to a hospital ,even a homeopathic hospital, then it is fairly certain that you feel there is something wrong with you. If you do go to a homeopathic hospital it is highly unlikely that you will be there for urgent trauma surgery or other invasive treatment (actually, I quite like the idea of a homeopathic ER. It would make a great TV series. It falls in with other great ideas such as the Salvation Airforce). It is more likely that you will be prescribed pills to make you feel better.

To confess that 25% of patients do not feel better after six years treatment is not a very good advertisment for homeopathy. I wonder what are the equivalent results for real medicine?

You rule – I’m with drM – a top piece of black humour.

Check out also the gags on this thread, including the “homeopathic parachute”:

badscience.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=585

In fact, perhaps we should have an “Alt Med jokes” page on the Bad Science Wiki? How about it Ben?

And maybe also a page for the the most scientifically deranged psuedo-sciency neutron bombardment claims by homeopaths as to how homeopathy “works”?