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	<title>Comments on: Lionel Milgrom &#8211; Quality Homeopathic Debate</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: jiangjiang</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-29754</link>
		<dc:creator>jiangjiang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 02:54:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-29754</guid>
		<description>ed hardy &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy clothing &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy clothing&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy clothing&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy shop &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy shop&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy shop&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
christian audigier &lt;a title=&quot;christian audigier&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com/christian-audigier.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;christian audigier&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy cheap &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy cheap&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy cheap&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy outlet &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy outlet&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy outlet&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy sale &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy clothes&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy sale&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy store &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy store&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy store&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy mens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy mens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com/ed-hardy-mens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy mens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy womens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy womens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com/ed-hardy-womens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy womens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy kids &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy kids&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyplus.com/kids.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy kids&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt; ed hardy kids</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ed hardy <a title="ed hardy" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy</strong></a><br />
ed hardy clothing <a title="ed hardy clothing" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy clothing</strong></a><br />
ed hardy shop <a title="ed hardy shop" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy shop</strong></a><br />
christian audigier <a title="christian audigier" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com/christian-audigier.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>christian audigier</strong></a><br />
ed hardy cheap <a title="ed hardy cheap" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy cheap</strong></a><br />
ed hardy outlet <a title="ed hardy outlet" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy outlet</strong></a><br />
ed hardy sale <a title="ed hardy clothes" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy sale</strong></a><br />
ed hardy store <a title="ed hardy store" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy store</strong></a><br />
ed hardy mens <a title="ed hardy mens" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com/ed-hardy-mens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy mens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy womens <a title="ed hardy womens" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com/ed-hardy-womens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy womens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy kids <a title="ed hardy kids" href="http://www.edhardyplus.com/kids.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy kids</strong></a> ed hardy kids</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-27290</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Jul 2009 00:56:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-27290</guid>
		<description>jimrog:
I note that you failed to offer references for this &#039;good scientific evidence&#039;.

I truly wonder why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jimrog:<br />
I note that you failed to offer references for this &#8216;good scientific evidence&#8217;.</p>
<p>I truly wonder why.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: darcysarto</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-14331</link>
		<dc:creator>darcysarto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:18:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-14331</guid>
		<description>Milgrom is in my office. He&#039;s carrying a copy of this:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Need-Know-UFOs-Military-Intelligence/dp/028307034X

I don&#039;t know if it comes with a free tin hat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Milgrom is in my office. He&#8217;s carrying a copy of this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Need-Know-UFOs-Military-Intelligence/dp/028307034X" rel="nofollow">www.amazon.co.uk/Need-Know-UFOs-Military-Intelligence/dp/028307034X</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if it comes with a free tin hat.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jimrog</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-10071</link>
		<dc:creator>jimrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Jan 2007 08:52:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-10071</guid>
		<description>I have read all of  the posts on your site in relation to Homeopathy. If you look at the vast majority of the responses to this deabte on Homeopathy most of your readers are convinced that there is NO scientific evidence at all for Homeopathy.
Many view it as equivalent to religious belief. I am simply pointing out that there is SOME good scientific evidence that the ultra molecular dilutions have an effect. The evidence might be small but once it is there, the scientific response is to investigate further.  You and your readers accuse Homeopaths of being selective but many of your readers are equally selective in ignoring this evidence, and refusing to recognise that there is something there that warrants further investigation. The real history of scientific trials of Homeopathy is actually quite fascinating - see for example Mike Emmans Deans book about this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have read all of  the posts on your site in relation to Homeopathy. If you look at the vast majority of the responses to this deabte on Homeopathy most of your readers are convinced that there is NO scientific evidence at all for Homeopathy.<br />
Many view it as equivalent to religious belief. I am simply pointing out that there is SOME good scientific evidence that the ultra molecular dilutions have an effect. The evidence might be small but once it is there, the scientific response is to investigate further.  You and your readers accuse Homeopaths of being selective but many of your readers are equally selective in ignoring this evidence, and refusing to recognise that there is something there that warrants further investigation. The real history of scientific trials of Homeopathy is actually quite fascinating &#8211; see for example Mike Emmans Deans book about this.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Goldacre</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-10031</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Goldacre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-10031</guid>
		<description>&quot;You all seem to follow Ben in assuming that anyone who is interested in Homeopathy is a deluded fantasist who is in a flight from science.&quot;

where on earth have i said this? what i say is, the evidence goes very strongly against it, and homeopaths tend to rely on weak rhetorical tropes and abuse in preference to discussing the evidence. your opening sentence rather proves the point jim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You all seem to follow Ben in assuming that anyone who is interested in Homeopathy is a deluded fantasist who is in a flight from science.&#8221;</p>
<p>where on earth have i said this? what i say is, the evidence goes very strongly against it, and homeopaths tend to rely on weak rhetorical tropes and abuse in preference to discussing the evidence. your opening sentence rather proves the point jim.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jimrog</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-10030</link>
		<dc:creator>jimrog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Jan 2007 11:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-10030</guid>
		<description>This is all very intersting. You all seem to  follow Ben in assuming that anyone who is interested in Homeopathy is a deluded fantasist who is in a flight from science.
In fact many serious scientists engage with Homeopathy because they recognise that there is a puzzling phenomena that has some real evidence for it and therefore warrants further investigation.
The truth is that not all of the scientific research shows Homeopathy to be no more than placebo. It is simply untrue and an evasion  to suggest that any research which demonstrates some evidence for Homeopathy is of poor quality and can therefore be dismissed. There is clinical and pre clinical evidence which does demonstrate some action of ultra molecular dilutions. 
A scientific mind would say  &quot; that&#039;s interesting. lets investigate further&quot;.
Closed minds have already decided that Homeopathy cannot be true and will therefore dismiss it without properly examining the evidence.

Just one recent example................................................................................

Research article
 . 
Rat models of acute inflammation: a randomized controlled study on the effects of homeopathic remedies
Anita Conforti , Paolo Bellavite , Simone Bertani , Flavia Chiarotti , Francesca Menniti-Ippolito  and Roberto Raschetti 

BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine 2007, 7:1     doi:10.1186/1472-6882-7-1

Published   17 January 2007 


Abstract (provisional) 



The complete article is available as a provisional PDF. The fully formatted PDF and HTML versions are in production. 




Background

One of the cardinal principles of homeopathy is the &quot;law of similarities&quot;, according to which patients can be treated by administering substances which, when tested in healthy subjects, cause symptoms that are similar to those presented by the patients themselves. Over the last few years, there has been an increase in the number of pre-clinical (in vitro and animal) studies aimed at evaluating the pharmacological activity or efficacy of some homeopathic remedies under potentially reproducible conditions. However, in addition to some contradictory results, these studies have also highlighted a series of methodological difficulties. The present study was designed to explore the possibility to test in a controlled way the effects of homeopathic remedies on two known experimental models of acute inflammation in the rat. To this aim, the study considered six different remedies indicated by homeopathic practice for this type of symptom in two experimental edema models (carrageenan- and autologous blood-induced edema), using two treatment administration routes (sub-plantar injection and oral administration). 

Methods

In a first phase, the different remedies were tested in the four experimental conditions, following a single-blind (measurement) procedure. In a second phase, some of the remedies (in the same and in different dilutions) were tested by oral administration in the carrageenan-induced edema, under double-blind (treatment administration and measurement) and fully randomized conditions. Seven-hundred-twenty male Sprague Dawley rats weighing 170-180 g were used. Six homeopathic remedies (Arnica montana D4, Apis mellifica D4, D30, Atropa belladonna D4, Hamamelis virginiana D4, Lachesis D6, D30, Phosphorus D6, D30), saline and indomethacin were tested. Edema was measured using a water-based plethysmometer, before and at different times after edema induction. Data were analyzed by ANOVA and Student t test.

Results

In the first phase of experiments, some statistically significant effects of homeopathic remedies (Apis, Lachesis and Phosporus) were observed (the reduction in paw volume increase ranging from 10% to 28% at different times since edema induction). In the second phase of experiments, the effects of homeopathic remedies were not confirmed. On the contrary, the unblinded standard allopathic drug indomethacin exhibited its anti-inflammatory effect in both experimental phases (the reduction in paw volume increase ranging from 14% to 40% in the first phase, and from 18% to 38% in the second phase of experiments).








The interesting thing here, in terms of Homeopathy is that only the more highly diluted and potentised remedies showed any action

I would like to see more research and less polemic and ill informed deabte on both sides. Homeopathy is not a religion: it started as an effective evidence based medicine and should continue that way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all very intersting. You all seem to  follow Ben in assuming that anyone who is interested in Homeopathy is a deluded fantasist who is in a flight from science.<br />
In fact many serious scientists engage with Homeopathy because they recognise that there is a puzzling phenomena that has some real evidence for it and therefore warrants further investigation.<br />
The truth is that not all of the scientific research shows Homeopathy to be no more than placebo. It is simply untrue and an evasion  to suggest that any research which demonstrates some evidence for Homeopathy is of poor quality and can therefore be dismissed. There is clinical and pre clinical evidence which does demonstrate some action of ultra molecular dilutions.<br />
A scientific mind would say  &#8221; that&#8217;s interesting. lets investigate further&#8221;.<br />
Closed minds have already decided that Homeopathy cannot be true and will therefore dismiss it without properly examining the evidence.</p>
<p>Just one recent example&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Research article<br />
 .<br />
Rat models of acute inflammation: a randomized controlled study on the effects of homeopathic remedies<br />
Anita Conforti , Paolo Bellavite , Simone Bertani , Flavia Chiarotti , Francesca Menniti-Ippolito  and Roberto Raschetti </p>
<p>BMC Complementary and Alternative Medicine 2007, 7:1     doi:10.1186/1472-6882-7-1</p>
<p>Published   17 January 2007 </p>
<p>Abstract (provisional) </p>
<p>The complete article is available as a provisional PDF. The fully formatted PDF and HTML versions are in production. </p>
<p>Background</p>
<p>One of the cardinal principles of homeopathy is the &#8220;law of similarities&#8221;, according to which patients can be treated by administering substances which, when tested in healthy subjects, cause symptoms that are similar to those presented by the patients themselves. Over the last few years, there has been an increase in the number of pre-clinical (in vitro and animal) studies aimed at evaluating the pharmacological activity or efficacy of some homeopathic remedies under potentially reproducible conditions. However, in addition to some contradictory results, these studies have also highlighted a series of methodological difficulties. The present study was designed to explore the possibility to test in a controlled way the effects of homeopathic remedies on two known experimental models of acute inflammation in the rat. To this aim, the study considered six different remedies indicated by homeopathic practice for this type of symptom in two experimental edema models (carrageenan- and autologous blood-induced edema), using two treatment administration routes (sub-plantar injection and oral administration). </p>
<p>Methods</p>
<p>In a first phase, the different remedies were tested in the four experimental conditions, following a single-blind (measurement) procedure. In a second phase, some of the remedies (in the same and in different dilutions) were tested by oral administration in the carrageenan-induced edema, under double-blind (treatment administration and measurement) and fully randomized conditions. Seven-hundred-twenty male Sprague Dawley rats weighing 170-180 g were used. Six homeopathic remedies (Arnica montana D4, Apis mellifica D4, D30, Atropa belladonna D4, Hamamelis virginiana D4, Lachesis D6, D30, Phosphorus D6, D30), saline and indomethacin were tested. Edema was measured using a water-based plethysmometer, before and at different times after edema induction. Data were analyzed by ANOVA and Student t test.</p>
<p>Results</p>
<p>In the first phase of experiments, some statistically significant effects of homeopathic remedies (Apis, Lachesis and Phosporus) were observed (the reduction in paw volume increase ranging from 10% to 28% at different times since edema induction). In the second phase of experiments, the effects of homeopathic remedies were not confirmed. On the contrary, the unblinded standard allopathic drug indomethacin exhibited its anti-inflammatory effect in both experimental phases (the reduction in paw volume increase ranging from 14% to 40% in the first phase, and from 18% to 38% in the second phase of experiments).</p>
<p>The interesting thing here, in terms of Homeopathy is that only the more highly diluted and potentised remedies showed any action</p>
<p>I would like to see more research and less polemic and ill informed deabte on both sides. Homeopathy is not a religion: it started as an effective evidence based medicine and should continue that way.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: jre</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9916</link>
		<dc:creator>jre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:46:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9916</guid>
		<description>In a gesture of Trans-Atlantic comity, I have decided to &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.someareboojums.org/blog/?p=38&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;alternate between the two spellings.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a gesture of Trans-Atlantic comity, I have decided to <a href="http://www.someareboojums.org/blog/?p=38" rel="nofollow">alternate between the two spellings.</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9819</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 15:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9819</guid>
		<description>They seem to be in two minds whether their &quot;National Rules Scheme&quot; applies to homoeopathic medicine, homeopathic medicine, or both.

The &quot;homeo-&quot; form seems much more common on the Internet, and I&#039;ll guess that it&#039;s more emphatically the orthodox spelling in America, where they tend to leave off frills from words imported into English.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They seem to be in two minds whether their &#8220;National Rules Scheme&#8221; applies to homoeopathic medicine, homeopathic medicine, or both.</p>
<p>The &#8220;homeo-&#8221; form seems much more common on the Internet, and I&#8217;ll guess that it&#8217;s more emphatically the orthodox spelling in America, where they tend to leave off frills from words imported into English.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mojo</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9812</link>
		<dc:creator>Mojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Dec 2006 13:42:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9812</guid>
		<description>&quot;itâ€™s homeopathic not homOeopathic.&quot;

Someone had better tell the MHRA!

http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&amp;nodeId=98</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;itâ€™s homeopathic not homOeopathic.&#8221;</p>
<p>Someone had better tell the MHRA!</p>
<p><a href="http://www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&#038;nodeId=98" rel="nofollow">www.mhra.gov.uk/home/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&#038;nodeId=98</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Twm</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9805</link>
		<dc:creator>Twm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9805</guid>
		<description>Homeopathy (also spelled homÅ“opathy or homoeopathy) from the Greek words ÏŒÎ¼Î¿Î¹Î¿Ï‚, hÃ³moios (similar) and Ï€Î¬Î¸Î¿Ï‚, pÃ¡thos (suffering)[1],</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Homeopathy (also spelled homÅ“opathy or homoeopathy) from the Greek words ÏŒÎ¼Î¿Î¹Î¿Ï‚, hÃ³moios (similar) and Ï€Î¬Î¸Î¿Ï‚, pÃ¡thos (suffering)[1],</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: billgibson</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9803</link>
		<dc:creator>billgibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9803</guid>
		<description>And I&#039;e just spotted the q in eagle. Bugger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And I&#8217;e just spotted the q in eagle. Bugger.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: billgibson</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9802</link>
		<dc:creator>billgibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Dec 2006 12:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9802</guid>
		<description>fg - it&#039;s homeopathic not homOeopathic.

It&#039;s such a pain conversing with so many eaqgle-eyed pedants!

Bill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fg &#8211; it&#8217;s homeopathic not homOeopathic.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s such a pain conversing with so many eaqgle-eyed pedants!</p>
<p>Bill</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: abahachi</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9788</link>
		<dc:creator>abahachi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Dec 2006 22:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9788</guid>
		<description>Re 105: Why discredit this by attributing it to neo-Marxists? Lots of entirely non-Marxist conservative historians would happily agree that the whole &#039;virgin birth&#039; issue is (a) pretty late in origin and (b) quite possibly due to mis-translation due to lack of cultural context.

Re everyone else: basic problem is, given that homeopathy is so manifestly obviously barking - the memory of water??? - why is it that people, even apparently sane and sensible people, believe it? It&#039;s all very well producing yet more witty expositions of why it&#039;s ridiculous; the crucial question, to quote Shermer, is &#039;why do people believe weird things?&#039;.

It lurks underneath almost every post here. Yes, sometimes there&#039;s a clear enough divide between what the maths actually tells you and what seems normal, but too often we end up as a little clique of true science believers against the dark mass of astonishing unscientific ignorance. Since it&#039;s Christmas, even I can get illogical at times; I want to believe in the possibility of enlightenment. So, what is it about &#039;science&#039; that people seem to have lost faith? How much is that actually the problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re 105: Why discredit this by attributing it to neo-Marxists? Lots of entirely non-Marxist conservative historians would happily agree that the whole &#8216;virgin birth&#8217; issue is (a) pretty late in origin and (b) quite possibly due to mis-translation due to lack of cultural context.</p>
<p>Re everyone else: basic problem is, given that homeopathy is so manifestly obviously barking &#8211; the memory of water??? &#8211; why is it that people, even apparently sane and sensible people, believe it? It&#8217;s all very well producing yet more witty expositions of why it&#8217;s ridiculous; the crucial question, to quote Shermer, is &#8216;why do people believe weird things?&#8217;.</p>
<p>It lurks underneath almost every post here. Yes, sometimes there&#8217;s a clear enough divide between what the maths actually tells you and what seems normal, but too often we end up as a little clique of true science believers against the dark mass of astonishing unscientific ignorance. Since it&#8217;s Christmas, even I can get illogical at times; I want to believe in the possibility of enlightenment. So, what is it about &#8216;science&#8217; that people seem to have lost faith? How much is that actually the problem?</p>
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		<title>By: pseudomonas</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9786</link>
		<dc:creator>pseudomonas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Dec 2006 08:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9786</guid>
		<description>fg: 850ml at 4Gb/ml doesn&#039;t make the 4Tb on the label.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>fg: 850ml at 4Gb/ml doesn&#8217;t make the 4Tb on the label.</p>
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		<title>By: fg</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9778</link>
		<dc:creator>fg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Dec 2006 20:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9778</guid>
		<description>oneiros - please tell me what I&#039;ve spelt wrong - as I&#039;ve just put this &lt;a href=&quot;http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/331149638_edb4edb633_o.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;slightly revised version&lt;/a&gt; (bottle has electrode, bubbles and label) through the spell checker, and beyond swearing at www.badscience.net, there were no complaints.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oneiros &#8211; please tell me what I&#8217;ve spelt wrong &#8211; as I&#8217;ve just put this <a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/124/331149638_edb4edb633_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">slightly revised version</a> (bottle has electrode, bubbles and label) through the spell checker, and beyond swearing at <a href="http://www.badscience.net" rel="nofollow">www.badscience.net</a>, there were no complaints.</p>
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		<title>By: TimW</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9758</link>
		<dc:creator>TimW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 23:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9758</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m usually pretty good at spelling errors but I can&#039;t spot it this time.  Has it been fixed?  Or is it Homoeopathic that you don&#039;t approve of?  Or something I&#039;ve missed - gah!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m usually pretty good at spelling errors but I can&#8217;t spot it this time.  Has it been fixed?  Or is it Homoeopathic that you don&#8217;t approve of?  Or something I&#8217;ve missed &#8211; gah!</p>
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		<title>By: oneiros</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9757</link>
		<dc:creator>oneiros</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 08:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9757</guid>
		<description>@107: Some nice ideas, but you might want to double-check your spelling on that first (water memory) one... ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@107: Some nice ideas, but you might want to double-check your spelling on that first (water memory) one&#8230; <img src='http://www.badscience.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: bootboy</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9756</link>
		<dc:creator>bootboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9756</guid>
		<description>&quot;Steve Bellâ€™s cartoon in todayâ€™s Guardian has a homeopathic interpretation - Bush diluted into Blair diluted into Cameron:&quot;

At sufficent levels of dilution, that particular solution will bring eternal peace to the universe, infinite respect for people of all creeds and colours and a never-ending reign of social justice.

If only this homeopathy stuff wasn&#039;t a load of cobblers. sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Steve Bellâ€™s cartoon in todayâ€™s Guardian has a homeopathic interpretation &#8211; Bush diluted into Blair diluted into Cameron:&#8221;</p>
<p>At sufficent levels of dilution, that particular solution will bring eternal peace to the universe, infinite respect for people of all creeds and colours and a never-ending reign of social justice.</p>
<p>If only this homeopathy stuff wasn&#8217;t a load of cobblers. sigh.</p>
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		<title>By: fg</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9755</link>
		<dc:creator>fg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 19:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9755</guid>
		<description>Sorry TWM, but I was so impressed by your USB water bottle I had to do my own - 

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/329341712_6fdf1a60cd_o.jpg

Hope you&#039;re not too narked.  There are some more designs here, 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82545477@N00/329341715/

starting with a post-feminist reinterpreation of &quot;MMR is safe&quot;.  (I thought this needed to appeal to women - so I went pink and fluffy.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry TWM, but I was so impressed by your USB water bottle I had to do my own &#8211; </p>
<p><a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/144/329341712_6fdf1a60cd_o.jpg" rel="nofollow">farm1.static.flickr.com/144/329341712_6fdf1a60cd_o.jpg</a></p>
<p>Hope you&#8217;re not too narked.  There are some more designs here, </p>
<p><a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/82545477@N00/329341715/" rel="nofollow">www.flickr.com/photos/82545477@N00/329341715/</a></p>
<p>starting with a post-feminist reinterpreation of &#8220;MMR is safe&#8221;.  (I thought this needed to appeal to women &#8211; so I went pink and fluffy.)</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2006/12/the-quality-of-homeopathic-debate/comment-page-3/#comment-9754</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 18:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=341#comment-9754</guid>
		<description>&quot;If weâ€™re talking New Testament textual analysis, my memory of this was that the Greek word in the original version of the relevant gospel didnâ€™t necessarily meanâ€ virginâ€ but rather â€œyoung womanâ€. When it was translated it became virgin, the irreligious neo-marxist historiansâ€™ view being that it suited the compilers of the early church in late Roman times to have Jesus born of a virgin, rather than being simply a child born to a married couple.

This sort of argument is a source of endless fun annoying serious and/or dogmatic Christians, if thatâ€™s your kind of thing. &quot;

The christians are at it too nowadays.  Christian &#039;true love waits&#039; approaches to contraception often suggest that members can become &#039;born again virgins&#039; when they take their pledge to abstain until marriage - even if they&#039;ve already had sex.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If weâ€™re talking New Testament textual analysis, my memory of this was that the Greek word in the original version of the relevant gospel didnâ€™t necessarily meanâ€ virginâ€ but rather â€œyoung womanâ€. When it was translated it became virgin, the irreligious neo-marxist historiansâ€™ view being that it suited the compilers of the early church in late Roman times to have Jesus born of a virgin, rather than being simply a child born to a married couple.</p>
<p>This sort of argument is a source of endless fun annoying serious and/or dogmatic Christians, if thatâ€™s your kind of thing. &#8221;</p>
<p>The christians are at it too nowadays.  Christian &#8216;true love waits&#8217; approaches to contraception often suggest that members can become &#8216;born again virgins&#8217; when they take their pledge to abstain until marriage &#8211; even if they&#8217;ve already had sex.</p>
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