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	<title>Comments on: No seriously, I felt the p-values, in my soul&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: longyan</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-28722</link>
		<dc:creator>longyan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Nov 2009 02:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-28722</guid>
		<description>It is no use doing  what &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-bailey-button-c-20.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ugg bailey button&lt;/a&gt; you like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uggshow.co.uk/specials.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ugg boots &lt;/a&gt;; you have got to like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-classic-cardy-c-2.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ugg classic cardy&lt;/a&gt; what you do &#160;My philosophy of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-lo-pro-button-c-21.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ugg lo pro button&lt;/a&gt; life is  work . When work is a pleasure , life is joy ! When work is duty ,&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-knightsbridge-c-27.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ugg knightsbridge&lt;/a&gt; life is  slavery .Work banishes those three great evils : boredom , vice, and  poverty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is no use doing  what <a href="http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-bailey-button-c-20.html" rel="nofollow">ugg bailey button</a> you like <a href="http://www.uggshow.co.uk/specials.html" rel="nofollow">ugg boots </a>; you have got to like <a href="http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-classic-cardy-c-2.html" rel="nofollow">ugg classic cardy</a> what you do &nbsp;My philosophy of <a href="http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-lo-pro-button-c-21.html" rel="nofollow">ugg lo pro button</a> life is  work . When work is a pleasure , life is joy ! When work is duty ,<a href="http://www.uggshow.co.uk/ugg-knightsbridge-c-27.html" rel="nofollow">ugg knightsbridge</a> life is  slavery .Work banishes those three great evils : boredom , vice, and  poverty.</p>
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		<title>By: bootboy</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12810</link>
		<dc:creator>bootboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 18:08:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12810</guid>
		<description>&quot;but I think a number stops being random when you know its value.&quot;

AFAIK it&#039;s when you can predict its value from the preceding sequence.  It&#039;s why, most computer programming languages use pseudo random numbers rather than random numbers - if you know the seed and the algorithm, you can calculate the next value.  If you need true randomness, you need an external source of entropy - for example a plate that detects particle impacts - which themselves are not purely random (they&#039;re chaotic) but for all intents and purposes, they might as well be (you&#039;d need a particle-level model of the universe to make the prediction).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but I think a number stops being random when you know its value.&#8221;</p>
<p>AFAIK it&#8217;s when you can predict its value from the preceding sequence.  It&#8217;s why, most computer programming languages use pseudo random numbers rather than random numbers &#8211; if you know the seed and the algorithm, you can calculate the next value.  If you need true randomness, you need an external source of entropy &#8211; for example a plate that detects particle impacts &#8211; which themselves are not purely random (they&#8217;re chaotic) but for all intents and purposes, they might as well be (you&#8217;d need a particle-level model of the universe to make the prediction).</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12802</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 10:36:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12802</guid>
		<description>Our pattern-seeking skill means that any random number is liable to have something peculiar about it.  A simple case (Martin Gardner, I think) would be randomly choosing 10 digits, each 0 to 9.  If one or more than one digit appears repeated then it looks as though the system is biased - a little - but even when you choose 9 different digits in advance, the chance that the 10th random choice is different to all the others is only 1 in 10.

I&#039;m not sure how this is handled formally, but I think a number stops being random when you know its value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our pattern-seeking skill means that any random number is liable to have something peculiar about it.  A simple case (Martin Gardner, I think) would be randomly choosing 10 digits, each 0 to 9.  If one or more than one digit appears repeated then it looks as though the system is biased &#8211; a little &#8211; but even when you choose 9 different digits in advance, the chance that the 10th random choice is different to all the others is only 1 in 10.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how this is handled formally, but I think a number stops being random when you know its value.</p>
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		<title>By: apothecary</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12765</link>
		<dc:creator>apothecary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2007 09:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12765</guid>
		<description>Runs of &quot;luck&quot; do occur by chance of course - in the DICE therapy for stroke trial (Counsell et al BMJ 1994; 309: 1677-81, simulating stroke RCTs by rolling dice - a 6 = a death, 1-5 = survival), in one &quot;trial&quot; n=20, the 10 rolls for the patients in the &quot;treatment&quot; arm produced no &quot;deaths&quot;, but there were six &quot;deaths&quot; among the 10 &quot;control&quot; patients.  The trialist describes how, when rolling the control group, the room fell eerily quiet as he rolled the fourth six in a row - this had never happened before! I think the chance is  is 1 in 6^4, or 1 in 1296.  In my rough and ready way, I reckon that&#039;s about P=0.0008 (I realise that&#039;s not a strictly correct interpretation of P, but it serves to contrast that chance finding with conventional levels of statistical significance). The DICE paper is, BTW and IMHO, a superb exposition of the play of chance, the need for large RCTs, the perils of MAs of small trials, the need for funnel plots, how results can be hyped, etc, etc</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Runs of &#8220;luck&#8221; do occur by chance of course &#8211; in the DICE therapy for stroke trial (Counsell et al BMJ 1994; 309: 1677-81, simulating stroke RCTs by rolling dice &#8211; a 6 = a death, 1-5 = survival), in one &#8220;trial&#8221; n=20, the 10 rolls for the patients in the &#8220;treatment&#8221; arm produced no &#8220;deaths&#8221;, but there were six &#8220;deaths&#8221; among the 10 &#8220;control&#8221; patients.  The trialist describes how, when rolling the control group, the room fell eerily quiet as he rolled the fourth six in a row &#8211; this had never happened before! I think the chance is  is 1 in 6^4, or 1 in 1296.  In my rough and ready way, I reckon that&#8217;s about P=0.0008 (I realise that&#8217;s not a strictly correct interpretation of P, but it serves to contrast that chance finding with conventional levels of statistical significance). The DICE paper is, BTW and IMHO, a superb exposition of the play of chance, the need for large RCTs, the perils of MAs of small trials, the need for funnel plots, how results can be hyped, etc, etc</p>
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		<title>By: jgw</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12763</link>
		<dc:creator>jgw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 May 2007 15:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12763</guid>
		<description>The example used is rather misleading in my opinion. Although the number of switches equals the number of repeats the total number of observations is odd.

So in this case the &#039;player&#039; has had a run of luck in the sense that he started on a O and that he got more X&#039;s than O&#039;s.

Add an O to the end, so that the observations are equal, not the transitions, and the sequence looks very different.

Looking at a sequence with equal number of transitions may well be more suitable, but perhaps the subject should have been asked if any part of the chain represented a streak of luck, rather than the whole chain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The example used is rather misleading in my opinion. Although the number of switches equals the number of repeats the total number of observations is odd.</p>
<p>So in this case the &#8216;player&#8217; has had a run of luck in the sense that he started on a O and that he got more X&#8217;s than O&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Add an O to the end, so that the observations are equal, not the transitions, and the sequence looks very different.</p>
<p>Looking at a sequence with equal number of transitions may well be more suitable, but perhaps the subject should have been asked if any part of the chain represented a streak of luck, rather than the whole chain.</p>
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		<title>By: bootboy</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12719</link>
		<dc:creator>bootboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2007 02:07:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12719</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;you wonâ€™t lose much spearing empty bushes every day, but decide just once that a lionâ€™s a random pattern in the grass, and youâ€™re out of the gene pool.&lt;/em&gt;

That is such a better example than I had ready that I don&#039;t know where to begin.  Trouble is, I work on low level stuff - neural networks and how they form abstractions from percepts in a hierarchical chain. I always forget about the big things with teeth.  

* note to self - include more lions in justifications *</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>you wonâ€™t lose much spearing empty bushes every day, but decide just once that a lionâ€™s a random pattern in the grass, and youâ€™re out of the gene pool.</em></p>
<p>That is such a better example than I had ready that I don&#8217;t know where to begin.  Trouble is, I work on low level stuff &#8211; neural networks and how they form abstractions from percepts in a hierarchical chain. I always forget about the big things with teeth.  </p>
<p>* note to self &#8211; include more lions in justifications *</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Aust</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12718</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Aust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 19:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12718</guid>
		<description>Hmm .. now there&#039;s an interesting research project, terry. I would have thought some enterprising statistician or psychologist would have already looked into this splendidly real-world problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm .. now there&#8217;s an interesting research project, terry. I would have thought some enterprising statistician or psychologist would have already looked into this splendidly real-world problem.</p>
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		<title>By: terry hamblin</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12717</link>
		<dc:creator>terry hamblin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12717</guid>
		<description>But I am sure it&#039;s true that Manchester United never have penalties given against them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I am sure it&#8217;s true that Manchester United never have penalties given against them.</p>
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		<title>By: Dudley</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12712</link>
		<dc:creator>Dudley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Apr 2007 22:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12712</guid>
		<description>Re #6 (Ken)

I think the book you;re thinking of is Life&#039;s Grandeur by SJGould.  Not one of his better ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #6 (Ken)</p>
<p>I think the book you;re thinking of is Life&#8217;s Grandeur by SJGould.  Not one of his better ones.</p>
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		<title>By: andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12701</link>
		<dc:creator>andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12701</guid>
		<description>this reminds me of a 3 day course i went on courtesy of the wonderful people at social services who were my employers at the time, it was titled Heuristics and Applied Psychology and all i remember of it was an entirely pointless exercise in predicting the flipping of a coin similar to the basket ball scores and was meant to illustrate that humans do indeed work with &quot;gut reactions&quot; however as the course was so dull we all tended to go for a liquid lunch so the rest is quite hazy. 
These days i work in the health food industry (don&#039;t just don&#039;t we are not all loons) and the &quot;gut instinct&quot; or perceived value of some snake oils is eminently summed up by the much re-produced entry from godlessgeeks
ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)
(1) My aunt had cancer.
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn&#039;t have cancer.
(4) Therefore, God exists.

just replace (3) with i got some deer antler fur supplements (yes they exist)
and (4) with therefore, supplements work and you get a taste of my day at work</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>this reminds me of a 3 day course i went on courtesy of the wonderful people at social services who were my employers at the time, it was titled Heuristics and Applied Psychology and all i remember of it was an entirely pointless exercise in predicting the flipping of a coin similar to the basket ball scores and was meant to illustrate that humans do indeed work with &#8220;gut reactions&#8221; however as the course was so dull we all tended to go for a liquid lunch so the rest is quite hazy.<br />
These days i work in the health food industry (don&#8217;t just don&#8217;t we are not all loons) and the &#8220;gut instinct&#8221; or perceived value of some snake oils is eminently summed up by the much re-produced entry from godlessgeeks<br />
ARGUMENT FROM MIRACLES (I)<br />
(1) My aunt had cancer.<br />
(2) The doctors gave her all these horrible treatments.<br />
(3) My aunt prayed to God and now she doesn&#8217;t have cancer.<br />
(4) Therefore, God exists.</p>
<p>just replace (3) with i got some deer antler fur supplements (yes they exist)<br />
and (4) with therefore, supplements work and you get a taste of my day at work</p>
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		<title>By: BrickWall</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12700</link>
		<dc:creator>BrickWall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:47:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12700</guid>
		<description>Quick observation from today&#039;s Telegraph relating to perceived cause.

It seems PAT (a teaching union) are callin gon the Govt. to undertake further research on Wi-Fi because a member has complained of becoming ill following the installation of Wi-Fi in their school.  Strangely enough when n=1 the whole sample seem to exhibit the problem!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quick observation from today&#8217;s Telegraph relating to perceived cause.</p>
<p>It seems PAT (a teaching union) are callin gon the Govt. to undertake further research on Wi-Fi because a member has complained of becoming ill following the installation of Wi-Fi in their school.  Strangely enough when n=1 the whole sample seem to exhibit the problem!!</p>
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		<title>By: CiarÃ¡n</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12699</link>
		<dc:creator>CiarÃ¡n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12699</guid>
		<description>was not pretty much the problem Apple first experienced with the iPod shuffle - it played tracks too randomly and they had to reprogram the shuffle to make it less random.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>was not pretty much the problem Apple first experienced with the iPod shuffle &#8211; it played tracks too randomly and they had to reprogram the shuffle to make it less random.</p>
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		<title>By: Delster</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12697</link>
		<dc:creator>Delster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12697</guid>
		<description>Moganero

the evolutionary pressure to develop an instinctive grasp of stats is fairly low.... i don&#039;t know anybody who got themselves dead from misunderstanding the stats...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moganero</p>
<p>the evolutionary pressure to develop an instinctive grasp of stats is fairly low&#8230;. i don&#8217;t know anybody who got themselves dead from misunderstanding the stats&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Camp Freddie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12696</link>
		<dc:creator>Camp Freddie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 09:21:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12696</guid>
		<description>The difficulty is that there are too many variables.
In basketball, you&#039;ll have &quot;winning runs&quot; due to skill, mainly while the opposing team is unable to deal with your tactics (bad marking or being marked by a below-average player).
These normally end after a timeout, once the opposition coach spots that he needs to re-organise tactics to deal with you.

You&#039;ll often get people saying they&#039;ve lost their touch after a break, when really it&#039;s your opponents that have fixed their tactics.

You&#039;ll also have a roghly equal number of relatively bad runs, when you&#039;re being marked by an above-average player.
I suppose that this is technically a winning run due to the lack of opponents skill, rather than an &#039;in the zone&#039; increase in your own.

Of course, you&#039;ll also have winning runs due to luck - which often seem like skill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The difficulty is that there are too many variables.<br />
In basketball, you&#8217;ll have &#8220;winning runs&#8221; due to skill, mainly while the opposing team is unable to deal with your tactics (bad marking or being marked by a below-average player).<br />
These normally end after a timeout, once the opposition coach spots that he needs to re-organise tactics to deal with you.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll often get people saying they&#8217;ve lost their touch after a break, when really it&#8217;s your opponents that have fixed their tactics.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll also have a roghly equal number of relatively bad runs, when you&#8217;re being marked by an above-average player.<br />
I suppose that this is technically a winning run due to the lack of opponents skill, rather than an &#8216;in the zone&#8217; increase in your own.</p>
<p>Of course, you&#8217;ll also have winning runs due to luck &#8211; which often seem like skill.</p>
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		<title>By: Filias Cupio</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12694</link>
		<dc:creator>Filias Cupio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Apr 2007 05:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12694</guid>
		<description>I recall a Stephen Gould essay where he looked at games-with-hits runs by baseball players. With lots of players and lots of seasons, you expect some impressive looking runs by chance. He concluded that there was nothing beyond chance expectations *except* for the longest run (57 games, I think) which he said was exceedingly unlikely.

It wouldn&#039;t be hard to statistically test for &quot;winning streaks&quot; in athletes. E.g. I compile the batting performance of a cricketer for an entire season - for every delivery they faced, I record how many runs they scored and whether they got out. Now I extract at random just one of those deliveries, and give you all the rest of the data (in random order.) Your job is to give odds on what they scored in the delivery I withheld. Now suppose instead of giving you the season&#039;s data all mixed up, I gave it to you in two lumps: deliveries faced by that player in the same week as the withheld one, and the rest. Could you better predict the score of the withheld delivery with this extra information?

Program a computer to do this, feed it lots of different &#039;withheld over&#039;s, and for lots of batsman...

Of course, at best you establish a correlation, not a cause. The correlation might (e.g.) be more to do with whether the captain had told them to play for safety or for quick runs, or the skill of the opposing bowler , rather than whether the batter is &#039;in the zone&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recall a Stephen Gould essay where he looked at games-with-hits runs by baseball players. With lots of players and lots of seasons, you expect some impressive looking runs by chance. He concluded that there was nothing beyond chance expectations *except* for the longest run (57 games, I think) which he said was exceedingly unlikely.</p>
<p>It wouldn&#8217;t be hard to statistically test for &#8220;winning streaks&#8221; in athletes. E.g. I compile the batting performance of a cricketer for an entire season &#8211; for every delivery they faced, I record how many runs they scored and whether they got out. Now I extract at random just one of those deliveries, and give you all the rest of the data (in random order.) Your job is to give odds on what they scored in the delivery I withheld. Now suppose instead of giving you the season&#8217;s data all mixed up, I gave it to you in two lumps: deliveries faced by that player in the same week as the withheld one, and the rest. Could you better predict the score of the withheld delivery with this extra information?</p>
<p>Program a computer to do this, feed it lots of different &#8216;withheld over&#8217;s, and for lots of batsman&#8230;</p>
<p>Of course, at best you establish a correlation, not a cause. The correlation might (e.g.) be more to do with whether the captain had told them to play for safety or for quick runs, or the skill of the opposing bowler , rather than whether the batter is &#8216;in the zone&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: uriel</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12693</link>
		<dc:creator>uriel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 22:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12693</guid>
		<description>The title reminds of Carl Sagan when asked a question to which he didn&#039;t know the answer and the questioner persisted: &#039;But what is your gut feeling?&#039;, he replied:

&#039;I try not to think with my gut. If I&#039;m serious about understanding the world, thinking with anything besides my brain, as tempting as that might be, is likely to get me into trouble.&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The title reminds of Carl Sagan when asked a question to which he didn&#8217;t know the answer and the questioner persisted: &#8216;But what is your gut feeling?&#8217;, he replied:</p>
<p>&#8216;I try not to think with my gut. If I&#8217;m serious about understanding the world, thinking with anything besides my brain, as tempting as that might be, is likely to get me into trouble.&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: coracle</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12692</link>
		<dc:creator>coracle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12692</guid>
		<description>@apothecary,
It could be that if the performer breaks concentration eough to comment that they are &#039;in the zone&#039; they then cease to be so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@apothecary,<br />
It could be that if the performer breaks concentration eough to comment that they are &#8216;in the zone&#8217; they then cease to be so.</p>
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		<title>By: apothecary</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12688</link>
		<dc:creator>apothecary</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 20:37:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12688</guid>
		<description>Another top article.  WRT being &quot;in the zone&quot; etc - I&#039;ve several times heard people say something to the effect that immediately after they&#039;ve been praised for doing something well (hitting a six, scoring a good break, playing a tricky piece of music well, etc), their next attempt to do the same will end in failure.  This they ascribe to the praise.  I can see there might be a psychological aspect to that (being cocky and over confident) but is it not more likely to be an example of regression to the mean?  Their mean performance is say, 7/10 on some abitary scale, they do something well (scoring 9/10) - their next act is more likely to be close to 7/10 than 9/10.   Not being a statistician, I&#039;d be grateful to be told if I&#039;m barking up the wrong tree there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another top article.  WRT being &#8220;in the zone&#8221; etc &#8211; I&#8217;ve several times heard people say something to the effect that immediately after they&#8217;ve been praised for doing something well (hitting a six, scoring a good break, playing a tricky piece of music well, etc), their next attempt to do the same will end in failure.  This they ascribe to the praise.  I can see there might be a psychological aspect to that (being cocky and over confident) but is it not more likely to be an example of regression to the mean?  Their mean performance is say, 7/10 on some abitary scale, they do something well (scoring 9/10) &#8211; their next act is more likely to be close to 7/10 than 9/10.   Not being a statistician, I&#8217;d be grateful to be told if I&#8217;m barking up the wrong tree there.</p>
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		<title>By: bootboy</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12687</link>
		<dc:creator>bootboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 19:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12687</guid>
		<description>Well put as usual.  The brain is just a great big pattern matcher - matching precepts to abstractions on a sequence of different levels.  

The pattern matching required to turn a pulse of light into an internal cognitive map of the visual scene is a staggeringly impressive task for an evolution-engineered device.  It makes sense that our brains are wired to attempt to impose patterns on events, and that they regularly encounter false-positives.  For various reasons that I don&#039;t have time to go into here, I reckon that the optimal engineering solution for the particular problems faced by the brain is going to be biased towards false-positives rather than false-negatives. 

I&#039;m also convinced that this propensity towards false-positives in pattern-matching is responsible, in an evolutionary sense, for the  conception of god.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well put as usual.  The brain is just a great big pattern matcher &#8211; matching precepts to abstractions on a sequence of different levels.  </p>
<p>The pattern matching required to turn a pulse of light into an internal cognitive map of the visual scene is a staggeringly impressive task for an evolution-engineered device.  It makes sense that our brains are wired to attempt to impose patterns on events, and that they regularly encounter false-positives.  For various reasons that I don&#8217;t have time to go into here, I reckon that the optimal engineering solution for the particular problems faced by the brain is going to be biased towards false-positives rather than false-negatives. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m also convinced that this propensity towards false-positives in pattern-matching is responsible, in an evolutionary sense, for the  conception of god.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Zetie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/04/no-seriously-i-felt-the-p-values-in-my-soul/comment-page-1/#comment-12686</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Zetie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Apr 2007 16:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=404#comment-12686</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Stephen J Gould investigate this sort of thing as well - when lying in hospital ecovering from some rare disease he studied baseball and basketball stats. It might be in &quot;the Mismeasure of man&quot; but I&#039;ve leant out all my SJG books :(. He looked at the idea that basketball players will claim they are &#039;in the zone&#039; in a game and score a much greater run of hits than normal. He found no evidence in all the meticulous stats of anything other than a normal distribution and a fairly constant figure of % chance to score for a given player for a given season. No run of form, no &#039;zone&#039;, just occasionally the coin will come down eight times in a row as heads. Well worth a read...especially if i could remember which book!

Ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn&#8217;t Stephen J Gould investigate this sort of thing as well &#8211; when lying in hospital ecovering from some rare disease he studied baseball and basketball stats. It might be in &#8220;the Mismeasure of man&#8221; but I&#8217;ve leant out all my SJG books <img src='http://www.badscience.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> . He looked at the idea that basketball players will claim they are &#8216;in the zone&#8217; in a game and score a much greater run of hits than normal. He found no evidence in all the meticulous stats of anything other than a normal distribution and a fairly constant figure of % chance to score for a given player for a given season. No run of form, no &#8216;zone&#8217;, just occasionally the coin will come down eight times in a row as heads. Well worth a read&#8230;especially if i could remember which book!</p>
<p>Ken</p>
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