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	<title>Comments on: A new ethics of bullshit</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: diudiu</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-30228</link>
		<dc:creator>diudiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 06:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-30228</guid>
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		<title>By: Barnacle Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14422</link>
		<dc:creator>Barnacle Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jul 2007 06:38:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14422</guid>
		<description>Mmm, perhaps you should also have a go at the religious brigade and the ethics of using intercessionary prayer for healing. One quack is as good as another, and I make no distinctions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmm, perhaps you should also have a go at the religious brigade and the ethics of using intercessionary prayer for healing. One quack is as good as another, and I make no distinctions.</p>
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		<title>By: b33k34</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14232</link>
		<dc:creator>b33k34</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Jun 2007 10:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14232</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m still feeling really rough after Glasto.  I definitely blame the electrosensitivity.  

I really like Yoga and did 3 hours over the weekend in the Green Fields.   I basically look at it as cheap physiotherapy that you actually spend an hour doing rather than lying that you have done - most of the postures are very similar to those that physios give you.  The spiritual/meditation element doesn&#039;t do much for me but it&#039;s actually really nice lying quietly focusing on thinking about nothing for 10 minutes.  


On the VIP area Charlie Brooker&#039;s piece in the Grauniad was interesting - he reckoned the only advantage was that it gave you a shortcut between the two main stages.  Given that the stages are low down, on the flat, and the area in front of both was under about 4&quot; of mud slurry I can&#039;t imagine it was one of the better places to be camped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m still feeling really rough after Glasto.  I definitely blame the electrosensitivity.  </p>
<p>I really like Yoga and did 3 hours over the weekend in the Green Fields.   I basically look at it as cheap physiotherapy that you actually spend an hour doing rather than lying that you have done &#8211; most of the postures are very similar to those that physios give you.  The spiritual/meditation element doesn&#8217;t do much for me but it&#8217;s actually really nice lying quietly focusing on thinking about nothing for 10 minutes.  </p>
<p>On the VIP area Charlie Brooker&#8217;s piece in the Grauniad was interesting &#8211; he reckoned the only advantage was that it gave you a shortcut between the two main stages.  Given that the stages are low down, on the flat, and the area in front of both was under about 4&#8243; of mud slurry I can&#8217;t imagine it was one of the better places to be camped.</p>
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		<title>By: roymondo</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14191</link>
		<dc:creator>roymondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14191</guid>
		<description>Ben, why don&#039;t you get yourself booked to speak in the Green Field next year? So long as you didn&#039;t clash with Chas &#039;n&#039; Dave you&#039;d probably have quite a large attendance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, why don&#8217;t you get yourself booked to speak in the Green Field next year? So long as you didn&#8217;t clash with Chas &#8216;n&#8217; Dave you&#8217;d probably have quite a large attendance.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Goldacre</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14158</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Goldacre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 16:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14158</guid>
		<description>i&#039;m totally touched that anyone should think i was in any posh bit of glasto, i was camped in the green fields with my mates like i have been every year for at least the past 15. in some respects i first started writing the column because of getting into arguments with hippies up trees at newbury bypass protest etc, and every now and then i&#039;d think: hey, i wonder, if i ever meet someone who actually knows about transport policy and the arms trade, whether it might turn out that i&#039;m as ignorant about those things as my mates are about CAM. luckily it turned out i was right about everything. phew.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i&#8217;m totally touched that anyone should think i was in any posh bit of glasto, i was camped in the green fields with my mates like i have been every year for at least the past 15. in some respects i first started writing the column because of getting into arguments with hippies up trees at newbury bypass protest etc, and every now and then i&#8217;d think: hey, i wonder, if i ever meet someone who actually knows about transport policy and the arms trade, whether it might turn out that i&#8217;m as ignorant about those things as my mates are about CAM. luckily it turned out i was right about everything. phew.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr* T</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14157</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr* T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14157</guid>
		<description>Just back from Glast. Mud bath. But was still fantastic. 

No doubt Ben was in some posh corporate suite somewhere.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just back from Glast. Mud bath. But was still fantastic. </p>
<p>No doubt Ben was in some posh corporate suite somewhere&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14155</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14155</guid>
		<description>Drugs?  At Glastonbury?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Drugs?  At Glastonbury?</p>
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		<title>By: Dubby</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14154</link>
		<dc:creator>Dubby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:36:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14154</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t believe that Aupmeduck (sorry I can&#039;t be bothered to check the spelling! Anyway he sounds Yorkshire so I don&#039;t know why a good Lancashire boy should read him anyway!)hasn&#039;t deliberately messed up his stats.

Weather, the river card, the roulette wheel have one thing in common.

They don&#039;t have a memory!!

(No real offence intended.)

Dubby.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t believe that Aupmeduck (sorry I can&#8217;t be bothered to check the spelling! Anyway he sounds Yorkshire so I don&#8217;t know why a good Lancashire boy should read him anyway!)hasn&#8217;t deliberately messed up his stats.</p>
<p>Weather, the river card, the roulette wheel have one thing in common.</p>
<p>They don&#8217;t have a memory!!</p>
<p>(No real offence intended.)</p>
<p>Dubby.</p>
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		<title>By: BSM</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14152</link>
		<dc:creator>BSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 17:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14152</guid>
		<description>When I qualified (as a vet) I was reminded that sometimes you need to bullshit the clients in order to retain their confidence, but what you must never do is bullshit yourself.

The problem wth most woos is that they bullshit themselves to the severe detriment of the public understanding of science and the health of their patients/victims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I qualified (as a vet) I was reminded that sometimes you need to bullshit the clients in order to retain their confidence, but what you must never do is bullshit yourself.</p>
<p>The problem wth most woos is that they bullshit themselves to the severe detriment of the public understanding of science and the health of their patients/victims.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Clegg</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14149</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Clegg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 12:52:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14149</guid>
		<description>&quot;A new ethics of bullshit&quot; -- a headline that one could only come up with, surely, while sitting in a soggy field surrounded by floating turds.

Andrew.

... no I don&#039;t mean the woos, but still...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A new ethics of bullshit&#8221; &#8212; a headline that one could only come up with, surely, while sitting in a soggy field surrounded by floating turds.</p>
<p>Andrew.</p>
<p>&#8230; no I don&#8217;t mean the woos, but still&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: stever</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14148</link>
		<dc:creator>stever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 10:26:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14148</guid>
		<description>just pragmatic zooloo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just pragmatic zooloo.</p>
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		<title>By: woodchopper</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14146</link>
		<dc:creator>woodchopper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14146</guid>
		<description>I have some sympathy for th idea. Everyone needs a hobby, and if people&#039;s idea of entertainment is to indulge in woo then thats their choice. 

However, the problem is if people are offering medical treatment and you want it to be beased on informed consent. To do that the &#039;woodoctor&#039; will have to tell the patient that there isn&#039;t any sound evidence for the treatment. The upside is that he can tell the patient that there are no side effects, becasuse the treatment has no physical effect on the human body. 

But would any woodoctor be willing to do that? I think that that level of honesty would cause a lot of them to be put out of business. 

The same goes for psychics etc. If they had to tell people that numerous studies had shown that they had no ability to contact the dead, would anyone visit them?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have some sympathy for th idea. Everyone needs a hobby, and if people&#8217;s idea of entertainment is to indulge in woo then thats their choice. </p>
<p>However, the problem is if people are offering medical treatment and you want it to be beased on informed consent. To do that the &#8216;woodoctor&#8217; will have to tell the patient that there isn&#8217;t any sound evidence for the treatment. The upside is that he can tell the patient that there are no side effects, becasuse the treatment has no physical effect on the human body. </p>
<p>But would any woodoctor be willing to do that? I think that that level of honesty would cause a lot of them to be put out of business. </p>
<p>The same goes for psychics etc. If they had to tell people that numerous studies had shown that they had no ability to contact the dead, would anyone visit them?</p>
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		<title>By: sven</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14145</link>
		<dc:creator>sven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 08:14:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14145</guid>
		<description>Can an electrosensitive personn attend a rock music festival?  All those electric guitars and sound equipment...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can an electrosensitive personn attend a rock music festival?  All those electric guitars and sound equipment&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: germslayer</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14143</link>
		<dc:creator>germslayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 20:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14143</guid>
		<description>How did you get tickets! Tell me!!! arghhhh!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How did you get tickets! Tell me!!! arghhhh!</p>
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		<title>By: zooloo</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14142</link>
		<dc:creator>zooloo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 18:33:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14142</guid>
		<description>&quot;I suppose the thing is that this stuff in one form or another is here to stay&quot;

I find that attitude repulsive.

Edmund Burke - All that&#039;s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I suppose the thing is that this stuff in one form or another is here to stay&#8221;</p>
<p>I find that attitude repulsive.</p>
<p>Edmund Burke &#8211; All that&#8217;s necessary for the forces of evil to win in the world is for enough good men to do nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: ayupmeduck</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14140</link>
		<dc:creator>ayupmeduck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 14:35:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14140</guid>
		<description>Have spent many an happy hour in Green Fields. It&#039;s the power of the Ley Lines that does it for me. Or maybe it&#039;s those HT power lines hang low directly above the kids camping field. You should try standing below them when the site is pulling full power, they literally make your skin tingle. I any case, I couldn&#039;t make it this year - getting some irrational pleasure watching my son in the football final. It&#039;s good to hear it&#039;s a mud-bath on my year off, that means that theres statistically a much higher chance of it being sunny for me next year.

There seems to be a world of difference between the esoteric fun of the Green Fields and exploitive lies that come from Holford, et al. I can&#039;t imagine sitting wasted, as the sun comes up and discussing the spiritual energy of Avalon with Gillian McKeith (Jeez, what a horrid thought).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have spent many an happy hour in Green Fields. It&#8217;s the power of the Ley Lines that does it for me. Or maybe it&#8217;s those HT power lines hang low directly above the kids camping field. You should try standing below them when the site is pulling full power, they literally make your skin tingle. I any case, I couldn&#8217;t make it this year &#8211; getting some irrational pleasure watching my son in the football final. It&#8217;s good to hear it&#8217;s a mud-bath on my year off, that means that theres statistically a much higher chance of it being sunny for me next year.</p>
<p>There seems to be a world of difference between the esoteric fun of the Green Fields and exploitive lies that come from Holford, et al. I can&#8217;t imagine sitting wasted, as the sun comes up and discussing the spiritual energy of Avalon with Gillian McKeith (Jeez, what a horrid thought).</p>
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		<title>By: Tontine</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14139</link>
		<dc:creator>Tontine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 13:29:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14139</guid>
		<description>Context is all?

When I&#039;m at my yoga class I&#039;m perfectly happy to be told about chakras and internal snakes and flames producing and eating waste (I paraphrase a little there...).

I allow for the fact that yoga has been around a while, and builds on ideas that have more in common with the four humours than modern exercise physiology.

However, my core muscle stability is much better now after two years of yoga than it was before, and I suffer much less back pain as a result.  I also feel that the meditation part of the sessions is probably good for me too, though in a less specific way.

On the other hand, if I were to visit my doctor and she talked about a need to rebalance my chakras to treat my (hypothetical) chalmyda infection I&#039;d be very unhappy about it indeed;  in that context, give me the clinically tested drugs!  Big ones!  Now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Context is all?</p>
<p>When I&#8217;m at my yoga class I&#8217;m perfectly happy to be told about chakras and internal snakes and flames producing and eating waste (I paraphrase a little there&#8230;).</p>
<p>I allow for the fact that yoga has been around a while, and builds on ideas that have more in common with the four humours than modern exercise physiology.</p>
<p>However, my core muscle stability is much better now after two years of yoga than it was before, and I suffer much less back pain as a result.  I also feel that the meditation part of the sessions is probably good for me too, though in a less specific way.</p>
<p>On the other hand, if I were to visit my doctor and she talked about a need to rebalance my chakras to treat my (hypothetical) chalmyda infection I&#8217;d be very unhappy about it indeed;  in that context, give me the clinically tested drugs!  Big ones!  Now!</p>
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		<title>By: SciencePunk</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/a-new-ethics-of-bullshit/comment-page-1/#comment-14137</link>
		<dc:creator>SciencePunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=439#comment-14137</guid>
		<description>interesting idea... I&#039;ve been getting increasingly militant against the &quot;it&#039;s only a bit of fun&quot; brigade recently, but perhaps I&#039;m on the wrong path.  I just can&#039;t help but think that homeopathy is the thin end of the wedge, so to speak.  And in fact, where do you draw the line?  It&#039;s not just a case of medical harm - it&#039;s a financial one. Is it right that a poor mother should be able to buy expensive but useless remedies for her baby, labouring under the belief that it will do some vague good?  
My head is all full of questions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>interesting idea&#8230; I&#8217;ve been getting increasingly militant against the &#8220;it&#8217;s only a bit of fun&#8221; brigade recently, but perhaps I&#8217;m on the wrong path.  I just can&#8217;t help but think that homeopathy is the thin end of the wedge, so to speak.  And in fact, where do you draw the line?  It&#8217;s not just a case of medical harm &#8211; it&#8217;s a financial one. Is it right that a poor mother should be able to buy expensive but useless remedies for her baby, labouring under the belief that it will do some vague good?<br />
My head is all full of questions.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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