The MoD have known for sometime wind power has been interfereing with their RADAR systems.
The government have stop them closing Wind Turbines.

Most people are poor obervers of their environment let alone knowing they are being zapped. And on this basis they assume that those of us who know there are high levels of radiation in the area are mentally defective.

If logic could shout very loudly the only mentally
defection is on the part of the people who can`t see. Just like going down the mine shaft with or without a canary.. By the time the person without the canary sences have worked it out. They are probably beyond being saved from the mine shaft.(Gas)
Yet they shout that whatever its can`t get me or so it seems the next generation. Like any drug addict they, might in fact love the radiation, as it can over stiumlate the body and they can get a hype. (Without taking any chemical) combineing chemical toxins and electropollution can make it even better. The next generation may became oversensitive (like children who had parents who drank too much)”They Blindly Go Where No Man Has Been Before; Or so They Think”!

If you measure the radiation on a flat screen monitor and it only says 4 units: However if there
is such a thing as a multi demensional reading of a
1000 units. Which would you believe was safe?

+ the fact you were unable to feel the energy:
Our equipment on the whole will be installed using a flat screen moniter:
Know what your dealing with on all levels.

Don`t be a fool and think it safe if you can`t feel or see it. And know that government and industry have created a need for technology: If it was gone tomorrow, then what?

Total melt down and exodus from biopro begins – distributors, vendors and their most important alliance… George Carlo. Biopro’s best hope for credible verification gone! The best part, he has abandoned biopro and throwing them under the biopro bus in an ironic twist of truthful fate.

Read about it here: http://bioproisascam.blogspot.com

Just let me say this 1st, you biopro supporters or so intellectually void its sad and your arguments are nearly never evidence supporting.

What an extremely insensitive thing to say, “Use your cell phones as much as possible and fry your brains even more”. You are advocating death to anyone that disagrees with you and the company you are supporting. Is that how biopro has trained you?

Then you further lower your IQ by calling us sheep… what exactly are you!? Oh, let me guess… you’re so damned enlightened that everyone else who questions you or disagrees with your cause are sheep.

If this does not expose this companies and distributors’ true intentions which is to rip off as many people as possible to fatten their bank accounts with scammed money – I do not know what else does. Starting a company as an MLM is a sure sign there are NO facts about their products, they are skirting any real regulatory insight into the validity of their products, and are just attempting to collect as much money as possible and fast as possible. Look into the structure of an MLM, that is exactly what it is designed to do.

This product has NOTHING to do with helping society OR “save the children”, this has everything to do with money and you retrolife have just exposed this truth along with many other distributors.

Thank you for exposing the truth about biopro, you are finally doing something GOOD for society!

This company Biopro offers outrageously priced products that can not be proven. In fact, with the help of the fraud Dr. they have launched their OWN 3rd party sites to validate their own claims!

The level of scam and fraud is unprecedented here and this Dr. / Trail Lawyer (make sense now knowing he’s a trial lawyer?) all need to be stopped and held accountable before another corporation is sued for trump accusations!

If you were scammed by Biopro then it is your duty to report them to the FTC.

More info at:
http://www.handheldlearning2007.com

Dr Carlo may also be present as will other experts concerned with the use of wireless technologies in the education and schools sector.

The call for papers and presentation proposals is open until July 16th and early registration discounts are available until 31st July including subsidised places for eligible schools and charities. Media passes are also available.

The event is the worlds largest conference on mobility in learning drawing an audience of over 600 delegates.

The Guardian Link (the ICT in education supplement from the Guardian) is the media sponsor.

Graham

OK Alex. I hope this argument goes somewhere but generally on this issue once people start talking about a conspiracy the debate goes down the toilet. In some ways a conspiracy is common ground, I think there is a general feeling on this forum that there is in effect a conspiracy, all be it unintentional between the media and the alternative therapy/crystal healing/homeopathy lobby. I’ll accept that you’re not part of a conspiracy, if you’ll agree I’m not.

I’m not sure how much mileage there is in talking about the conspiracy theory argument. It’s kind of by definition unresolvable. If you could prove a conspiracy theory, it wouldn’t be a conspiracy theory. However, if it is a conspiracy, how on Earth do they hope to get away with it? It’s not as if the symptoms are difficult, or expensive to reproduce and test? Why didn’t Panorama do the experiment? Big Pharma is keen enough to medicalize everything. Why not this? Wifi is everywhere, a pill or a cream for that would be huge! I realize that it doesn’t prove the underlying theory is wrong, but aren’t you concerned that so many of the statements by these anti-EMF guys are clearly nonsense? The reason that people may seem a bit cynical and dismissive here is that this argument keeps coming up and always ends as follows:

1. We get accused of dismissing people’s symptoms.
2. It never really becomes clear why the anti-EMF person believes it causes these symptoms beyond that their own experiences of their symptoms, or observations of somebody else’s symptoms, makes them absolutely certain.
3. They never fully explain what it is about their observations that can’t be explained in other ways and the discussion rambles off on tangent after tangent.

Could we restrict this for a while to you explaining what it is about your symptoms that clearly points to EMF and excludes other explanations? You may well find that people then attempt to pick holes in what you’ve said and challenge your arguments. But this is a scientific forum and that’s how it works.

I think people would be happy to look at any source on the internet that you recommend if you will clarify your reasoning.

Tom

You seem to be a reasonable man, well I mean informed and open-minded. Then spend 15 minutes of your time to browse the Internet and go on to websites or blogs that mention EHS. They all mentioned the symptoms that I am talking about and yes this has been my daily life for 2 years now. Like most of my fellows EHS sufferers, I have seen plenty of docs that do not know about it or do not want to acknowledge the symptoms. Why? well there are plenty of reasons, some people say that the huge telecom lobby is behind all this, trying to hide the truth…but wellthis is not possible according to Ben Goldacre. How come one of the most powerful and profitable industry could fight against a banch of people that very few believes and that cannot even send emails to complain about their condition…?

Ah la la. C’est la vie!

‘Cpu’ stands for computer…
And well, obviously I was not using a CRT computer screen as I CANNOT USE THEM AT ALL. In both places there were only flat screen screens. It’s just something else, such as the brand of the computer or screen, the fact that it is earth ground or not, etc…I don’t know the reason really, I just tell you the facts.
And as for the photocopy machine, I always close the flap so…

one other thing. As an IT SysAdmin I’m a bit worried here. You’ve had rashes, headaches and tachycardia for 2 years+….. You have seen a doctor about this?

Again, I’m not a doctor and I’m sure Ben doesn’t want to turn this forum into an out of hours GP service, so feel free to ignore me.

I’m not sure that one can jump from an association of your symptoms with technology to your symptoms being cause by EMF. The flickering of the old CRT monitors can be very bad for headaches. Could the headaches not just be that you are unusually susceptible to the flickering of CRT screens? I checked EpilepsyAction (http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/employers/computers.html) who seem to feel that the big thing about LCD/TFT screens is that they don’t flicker. Might this not be the trigger for your headaches? A photocopier machine is a pretty bright, flickery source of light, this may well fall into the same category.

Perhaps one of the medics on this forum can suggest an alternative cause for the rash.

I’m not clear what a CPU screen is.

You say that you get tachycardia from your mobile phone. I hadn’t heard of this before, but it sounds kind of different. Do mobile phones give you a headache? Do photocopier machines give you tachycardia?

Nothing about your symptoms strikes me as unreasonable. I’m happy to accept that they may well be linked to technology. What I don’t understand is why you are so sure that your symptoms are caused by EMF. As Ben points out ad nauseum, there have been ~30 published studies on this and the evidence is pretty solid that electrosensitivity does not exist. They could be wrong, but unless I’m missing something, I don’t see how you can feel so sure, particularly when it seems to me there are other explanations that don’t have a bunch of research against them.

Again, I think we all acknowledge that these symptoms are real.

The fact that I get massive headaches and skin rashes when I use a conventional CRT computer screen, a regular TV, a photocopy machine and of course a mobile phone (+tachycardia)…AND that I have got no symptoms at all when I use flat screen TVs or cpu screens kind of makes me think that the technology is involved…then obviously the EMF.

Last week again, simple fact, I went to a library to use a computer with Internet. I couldn’t stay 5 min bcz of headaches. Then, straight after, I went to the cyber cafe I always go around the corner, and I stayed 2h in front of the computer. How am I supposed to explain it?

Would you say that it’s just a coincidence? that I maybe associate libraries to schools and therefore to a chaotic and stressful education that I have had in the past…and the relationship with my parents living in another country blah blah… Well I am sorry. I just believe it comes from the technology that I had in front of me at that time. As simple as that!

I’m afraid that scientists must be free to doubt, if not, then we would not be able to do any science.

About 2 years ago, I have had to change career to work as a teacher in London in order to avoid working with a computer all day.

I don’t know what to say, I am neither a scientific or a lobbyst or whoever with any kind of power. The only thing is that my symptoms are here, for no reason, at least none that I am aware of and nobody could cure me so far. If you knew me, you would see that I am not depressed, I am a very happy and enthusiastic person. But still, some people reject the facts and do not care at all about this fairly recent condition that is EHS.

What don’t we meet up sometime in London? We could have a coffee or a beer and you would see by yourself that I am not an alien, that I am just a normal human being suffering from something you obviously do not know.

alex

I don’t think this in particular is the problem. DNA is nearly all of our heredity, but there is evidence of other factors at least from one generation to the next – [One Planet] on World Service this week reported that woodsmoke exposure, or was it carbon monoxide (there’s a sort of Guatemalan home sauna where you get a dose of both), is associated with low birth weight.

So you could ask the chap whatlhe meant, I suppose. First of all you should establish whether he actually wrote the document and how far its publication is in line with his intentions. It appears to be for publication in Hte Naguradi with a headline provided to suggest that the paper did publish it lke that, which I take it it didn’t. But it may also be an open letter and perhaps circulated with his blessing. Or it was written by me in the pub. No it wasn’t, but how can you tell?

The numbers of mobiles has certainly not tripled in the last 2 years, if they had, the networks would have collapsed… i’m a telecoms engineer and i know what kind of network capacity margins are built into these things. They would have had to rebuild most of the fixed side of the mobile networks.

Re. the letter reproduced above
“Pathology and experimental findings support a mechanistic underpinning: an environmentally induced genetic change that renders daughter cells to carry membrane sensitivity characteristics with most symptoms directly or indirectly the result of consequent disrupt of intercellular communication.”

Is he claiming that the EM Radiation from mobiles / masts / wi-fi etc is strong enough to cause changes in DNA? or am i interpreting that wrong?