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	<title>Comments on: Electrosensitives: the new cash cow of the woo industry</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: diudiu</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-4/#comment-30197</link>
		<dc:creator>diudiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-30197</guid>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ed hardy <a title="ed hardy" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy</strong></a><br />
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		<title>By: poet40</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-4/#comment-14144</link>
		<dc:creator>poet40</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jun 2007 07:44:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-14144</guid>
		<description>Hi
The real problem with electro-sensitivity is that it affects different people in different ways.   This, of course, can only raise general scepticism of this condition.   Equally, it is not altogether surprising that laboratory tests on individual sufferers are sometimes inconsistent.   One of the main features of being electrically-sensitive is that any reaction to electrical activity can vary depending on an individual&#039;s prior exposure.  For example, an ES person would be far more tolerant of any type of EM if he/she had been in virtual hibernation before the test.   This feature of the illness is the ONE constant in the lives of ES sufferers; the illness is cumulative.   The only other connection ES sufferers have to work with is that they have such symptoms when in the prolonged presence of electrical activity.  It all defies modern understanding and apparent logic.   If it is a &#039;real&#039; illness, please spare a thought for the utter social isolation experienced by sufferers against the backdrop of a medical profession who share the general scepticism of contributors on this blog.   Science is an emerging discipline.   Let&#039;s keep the debate rolling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />
The real problem with electro-sensitivity is that it affects different people in different ways.   This, of course, can only raise general scepticism of this condition.   Equally, it is not altogether surprising that laboratory tests on individual sufferers are sometimes inconsistent.   One of the main features of being electrically-sensitive is that any reaction to electrical activity can vary depending on an individual&#8217;s prior exposure.  For example, an ES person would be far more tolerant of any type of EM if he/she had been in virtual hibernation before the test.   This feature of the illness is the ONE constant in the lives of ES sufferers; the illness is cumulative.   The only other connection ES sufferers have to work with is that they have such symptoms when in the prolonged presence of electrical activity.  It all defies modern understanding and apparent logic.   If it is a &#8216;real&#8217; illness, please spare a thought for the utter social isolation experienced by sufferers against the backdrop of a medical profession who share the general scepticism of contributors on this blog.   Science is an emerging discipline.   Let&#8217;s keep the debate rolling.</p>
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		<title>By: raygirvan</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13915</link>
		<dc:creator>raygirvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jun 2007 00:45:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13915</guid>
		<description>&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fan-scinating&lt;/a&gt;. I wonder if electrical sensitivity would come into the territory of &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Culture-bound syndromes&lt;/a&gt;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death" rel="nofollow">Fan-scinating</a>. I wonder if electrical sensitivity would come into the territory of <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture-bound_syndrome" rel="nofollow">Culture-bound syndromes</a>?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: JQH</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13815</link>
		<dc:creator>JQH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Jun 2007 20:54:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13815</guid>
		<description>There&#039;re lots of mobile phone masts going up in South Africa. No &quot;electrosensitivity&quot; AFAIK. This seems to be some sort of cultural thing, like the obsession of some South Koreans with &quot;fan death&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;re lots of mobile phone masts going up in South Africa. No &#8220;electrosensitivity&#8221; AFAIK. This seems to be some sort of cultural thing, like the obsession of some South Koreans with &#8220;fan death&#8221;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ebwilford</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13782</link>
		<dc:creator>ebwilford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Jun 2007 21:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13782</guid>
		<description>We&#039;ve been looking at it all wrong.  What we need to win in Iraq (and hey, what the hell...Iran too) is to build lots and lots of mobile phone masts and WiFi routers.  The bastards won&#039;t know what hit them...they&#039;ll come over all lethargic, and have really bad headaches.  Could YOU propagate terrorism with a bad headache?  I didn&#039;t think so.

Bad Science will lead the way to a better tomorrow.  I&#039;m certain of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;ve been looking at it all wrong.  What we need to win in Iraq (and hey, what the hell&#8230;Iran too) is to build lots and lots of mobile phone masts and WiFi routers.  The bastards won&#8217;t know what hit them&#8230;they&#8217;ll come over all lethargic, and have really bad headaches.  Could YOU propagate terrorism with a bad headache?  I didn&#8217;t think so.</p>
<p>Bad Science will lead the way to a better tomorrow.  I&#8217;m certain of it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mojo</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13727</link>
		<dc:creator>Mojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:43:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13727</guid>
		<description>j said, (June 7, 2007 at 4:29 pm) &quot;Did you think about how your programme would impact
on provision for students with learning difficulties?&quot;

Never mind the children.  Won&#039;t someone think of the parents and journalists with learning difficulties?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>j said, (June 7, 2007 at 4:29 pm) &#8220;Did you think about how your programme would impact<br />
on provision for students with learning difficulties?&#8221;</p>
<p>Never mind the children.  Won&#8217;t someone think of the parents and journalists with learning difficulties?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13666</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13666</guid>
		<description>Just read Julia Stephenson&#039;s response.

As far as I&#039;m aware scientists have never assured us that the earth was flat.  The Greeks knew it wasn&#039;t, as did Christopher Columbus.  I thought the flat earth myth was started by Washington Irvine in the 19th century.  Before then, nobody thought it was flat.

Also, I&#039;m fairly sure that pesticides aren&#039;t harmless.  Like the atom bomb, they&#039;d be fairly useless if they were useless.  They may not be harmful in certain doses...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read Julia Stephenson&#8217;s response.</p>
<p>As far as I&#8217;m aware scientists have never assured us that the earth was flat.  The Greeks knew it wasn&#8217;t, as did Christopher Columbus.  I thought the flat earth myth was started by Washington Irvine in the 19th century.  Before then, nobody thought it was flat.</p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m fairly sure that pesticides aren&#8217;t harmless.  Like the atom bomb, they&#8217;d be fairly useless if they were useless.  They may not be harmful in certain doses&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13665</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13665</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the reminder, Ray.

re. the Stephenson response...where to start...  I especially like the claim that scientists believed that the atom bomb was harmless (the atom *bomb* ffs - if a bomb&#039;s &#039;harmless&#039;, it&#039;s broke).

If of interest to anyone - and to make this a really loser-length post - here&#039;s the BBC&#039;s response to my complaint about panorama (I&#039;ve edited to remove some personal details etc.)  btw, anyone else had a &#039;proper&#039; response?:

Thank you for your further e-mail.

I&#039;ve spoken directly to the programme&#039;s Deputy Editor on your behalf and
enclose his response to your ongoing concerns:

&quot;Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the Panorama programme &quot;Wi-fi:
A Warning Signal&quot; which has been passed to me for a second response.

Regarding our use of the term &quot;radiation&quot;. We did not feel that the term
&quot;radio waves&quot; was a fair reflection of the step change to microwave
frequencies which some scientists believe can have a biological effect on
human cells. Like it or not &quot;radiation&quot; is the term that has become common
currency in the debate on mobile phone masts and now Wi-Fi.  However, at
the opening of the programme we made it crystal clear in the commentary
that we were talking about &quot;radio frequency radiation&quot; and we used the word
&quot;signal&quot; in the title and wherever possible throughout the programme to
keep alive the idea to that what we were dealing with was an inevitable
by-product of active Wi-Fi communication and downloads. 

The phrase &quot;official disability&quot; is used by one of our Swedish interviewees
and its how she characterises her condition in her own words and not
something we felt needed challenging.

Regarding your comments on Alasdair Phillips/Powerwatch. We feel the
comparison he helped us make (in the absence of any studies on radiation
exposure levels in Wi-fi enabled classrooms) was valid in the sense that it
visualised a genuine concern that may come to shape public health
protection policy in the future. 

We did not cast the mast/classroom comparison as having validity beyond
that. We said in commentary that the signal strength test would need to be
repeated and verified and but that the levels we found were comfortably
within current safety limits.

Panorama told the audience correctly that Alasdair has been trusted to
carry out these sorts of measurements by both the phone companies and
industry regulators. We did not allow him to editorialise on the results in
an interview or promote or use any equipment he markets in taking the
measurements. We also gave the viewers a sense of his provenance in terms
of &quot;running a lobby group called Powerwatch which raises awareness of
electromagnetic smog.&quot; 

[...]

However, we were not the first broadcasters to raise this issue and when we asked a
Government Minister to take part in the programme we were directed to Sir
William Stewart of the Health Protection Agency whose concerns shaped our
approach to the whole subject. 

Like it or not there is a credible cast of politicians, scientists and
teachers representatives who question the whole basis on which current
radiation safety limits are set and would like to see more research work
undertaken in this area. Once that work is done the industry and the public
will move on wiser and safer.

I hope this covers the points you raised. 

Best wishes&quot;

[...]

{Programme Name:}   Panorama
{Transmission Date:}22 - 05 - 07

{Comments:}
I am sending this to reply to your response to my complaint (I tried 
e-mailing back, but this is apparently not allowed).  See below for 
details:

Dear Sir/Madam,

As you will see if you read my complaint, I made a number of points 
about Panorama and asked a number of questions.  Your response does not 
address my concerns at all.  A quick look on the Internet shows that you 
are sending a pre-written letter to all complainants - 
http://www.badscience.net/?p=415  This is not an acceptable standard 
of service (I would expect a more considered response from the average 
call centre, let alone the BBC).  Please read my complaint and respond 
to my concerns: a &#039;boilerplate&#039; response is not acceptable.

One more point - your disclaimer (&quot;This e-mail (and any attachments) is 
confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of 
the BBC unless specifically stated.  If you have received it in error, 
please delete it from your system.  Do not use, copy or disclose the 
information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender 
immediately.  Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or 
received.  Further communication will signify your consent to this&quot;) is 
very badly written, and does not make any sense to me.  I therefore do 
not consent to this - I&#039;m not even at all sure what it means - and if 
you really want to add a disclaimer to your e-mails, I would suggest 
that the BBC writes something more coherent.

...
info@bbc.co.uk wrote:
&gt; &gt; Dear Mr J
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Many thanks for taking the time to get in touch following our show, 
Wi-Fi - A Warning Signal. 
&gt; &gt; I&#039;m sorry if you believe the programme lacked the hard evidence you 
wanted to see.  Unfortunately, the truth is that as things stand, there 
is no hard evidence regarding the effects of long term exposure to Wi-Fi 
which is why we made the programme. 
&gt; &gt; Wi-Fi is being rolled out into classrooms around the country by the 
Government contrary to the precautionary approach recommended by the 
head of its own advisory body Sir William Stewart - chair of the Health 
Protection Agency.  As you will have seen in the programme, he believes 
that where radiation is concerned we should base policy on the 
precautionary principle particularly when it comes to children.  This 
therefore raises questions as to whether Wi-Fi should be rolled out into 
the classroom without any long term health research being carried out.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Many scientists criticise the way in which the radiation exposure 
limits are set in this country.  The programme featured both the WHO 
position and ICNIRP who base their limits on what they term a &quot;thermal 
effect&quot;.  It is this view that courts criticism from some scientists, 
including those featured in our programme, because the safety limits do 
not take into account a biological effect which some scientists say they 
have found evidence of.  The reason why these positions were not 
represented by different people is that Dr Michael Repacholi is perhaps 
the most qualified person to answer such questions given that he was the 
founding chair of ICNIRP (and continues to be Emeritus Chairman) and 
because he set up and headed the WHO EMF project for ten years.  
However, he was given the opportunity to make his position clear in the 
programme.
&gt; &gt; The other scientists in the film are all experts in their fields who 
have concerns that we are rushing forward into something before it&#039;s 
been around long enough to know what the long term effects could be.
&gt; &gt; The fact that the Swedish government recognises radiation sensitivity 
as a disability that affects 3% of the population was, we felt, of 
interest given our Government&#039;s publicly stated view that this condition 
does not exist.
&gt; &gt; The programme attempted to raise concern without causing alarm - 
always a difficult balance to strike but one which we believe we 
achieved. 
&gt; &gt; Please continue to let us know your views on the programmes as they 
are always welcome and we hope you keep watching.
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; Regards
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; BBC Panorama
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----
&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; [...]
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; {Comments:}
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I was appalled by the Panorama programme on electrosmog.  This 
appeared to uncritically accept the agenda of groups such as Powerwatch 
(which have a vested interest in selling &#039;treatments&#039; for 
electrosensitivity and electrosmog) while at the same time smearing 
scientists who challenge scaremongering about electrosmog by focusing on 
their links to mobile phone companies.  I am sure that you will have 
received a number of e-mails about this programme, so I will just list a 
few mistakes which jumped out at me.  Why didn&#039;t you give a proper 
explanation of what &#039;radiation&#039; means (everything from light bulbs to TV 
masts emit radiation)?  Just referring to wifi equipment emitting 
&#039;radiation&#039;, without contextualising this, sounds unnecessarily scary.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There is no such thing as an &#039;official disability&#039; in Sweden, so why 
did the programme refer to such &#039;official disabilities&#039;?
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Re. the woman who could &#039;detect&#039; EMR two thirds of the time - was 
this statistically significant?  Did the programme-makers check?  If so, 
why didn&#039;t they tell the viewers?  If it wasnÃƒ&#039;&#039;t statistically 
significant, then the fact that she could &#039;detect&#039; this EMR 2/3 of the 
time was irrelevant.
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Why did you allow Powerwatch to advertise their &#039;electrosmog 
detector&#039; and their &#039;shielding&#039; products, without testing these products 
for efficacy or utility?
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Why did you imply that hard-wiring a classroom is risk-free?  Aside 
from obvious risks (e.g. tripping over a wire) I&#039;m sure you know that 
running a current through a wire will generate an electromagnetic field. 
 If you want to be paranoid about this stuff (I don&#039;t, but it seems 
Panorama does) then how do we know this is risk free?  Where are the 
long-term studies?  Nothing in life is risk-free (though many things are 
sufficiently low-risk that the benefits far outweigh the risks).
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; [...]

&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Anecdotally, a number of schools have been having to deal with 
requests from parents to disable their wireless networks after the 
Panorama broadcast.  Did you think about how your programme would impact 
on provision for students with learning difficulties?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the reminder, Ray.</p>
<p>re. the Stephenson response&#8230;where to start&#8230;  I especially like the claim that scientists believed that the atom bomb was harmless (the atom *bomb* ffs &#8211; if a bomb&#8217;s &#8216;harmless&#8217;, it&#8217;s broke).</p>
<p>If of interest to anyone &#8211; and to make this a really loser-length post &#8211; here&#8217;s the BBC&#8217;s response to my complaint about panorama (I&#8217;ve edited to remove some personal details etc.)  btw, anyone else had a &#8216;proper&#8217; response?:</p>
<p>Thank you for your further e-mail.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve spoken directly to the programme&#8217;s Deputy Editor on your behalf and<br />
enclose his response to your ongoing concerns:</p>
<p>&#8220;Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the Panorama programme &#8220;Wi-fi:<br />
A Warning Signal&#8221; which has been passed to me for a second response.</p>
<p>Regarding our use of the term &#8220;radiation&#8221;. We did not feel that the term<br />
&#8220;radio waves&#8221; was a fair reflection of the step change to microwave<br />
frequencies which some scientists believe can have a biological effect on<br />
human cells. Like it or not &#8220;radiation&#8221; is the term that has become common<br />
currency in the debate on mobile phone masts and now Wi-Fi.  However, at<br />
the opening of the programme we made it crystal clear in the commentary<br />
that we were talking about &#8220;radio frequency radiation&#8221; and we used the word<br />
&#8220;signal&#8221; in the title and wherever possible throughout the programme to<br />
keep alive the idea to that what we were dealing with was an inevitable<br />
by-product of active Wi-Fi communication and downloads. </p>
<p>The phrase &#8220;official disability&#8221; is used by one of our Swedish interviewees<br />
and its how she characterises her condition in her own words and not<br />
something we felt needed challenging.</p>
<p>Regarding your comments on Alasdair Phillips/Powerwatch. We feel the<br />
comparison he helped us make (in the absence of any studies on radiation<br />
exposure levels in Wi-fi enabled classrooms) was valid in the sense that it<br />
visualised a genuine concern that may come to shape public health<br />
protection policy in the future. </p>
<p>We did not cast the mast/classroom comparison as having validity beyond<br />
that. We said in commentary that the signal strength test would need to be<br />
repeated and verified and but that the levels we found were comfortably<br />
within current safety limits.</p>
<p>Panorama told the audience correctly that Alasdair has been trusted to<br />
carry out these sorts of measurements by both the phone companies and<br />
industry regulators. We did not allow him to editorialise on the results in<br />
an interview or promote or use any equipment he markets in taking the<br />
measurements. We also gave the viewers a sense of his provenance in terms<br />
of &#8220;running a lobby group called Powerwatch which raises awareness of<br />
electromagnetic smog.&#8221; </p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>However, we were not the first broadcasters to raise this issue and when we asked a<br />
Government Minister to take part in the programme we were directed to Sir<br />
William Stewart of the Health Protection Agency whose concerns shaped our<br />
approach to the whole subject. </p>
<p>Like it or not there is a credible cast of politicians, scientists and<br />
teachers representatives who question the whole basis on which current<br />
radiation safety limits are set and would like to see more research work<br />
undertaken in this area. Once that work is done the industry and the public<br />
will move on wiser and safer.</p>
<p>I hope this covers the points you raised. </p>
<p>Best wishes&#8221;</p>
<p>[...]</p>
<p>{Programme Name:}   Panorama<br />
{Transmission Date:}22 &#8211; 05 &#8211; 07</p>
<p>{Comments:}<br />
I am sending this to reply to your response to my complaint (I tried<br />
e-mailing back, but this is apparently not allowed).  See below for<br />
details:</p>
<p>Dear Sir/Madam,</p>
<p>As you will see if you read my complaint, I made a number of points<br />
about Panorama and asked a number of questions.  Your response does not<br />
address my concerns at all.  A quick look on the Internet shows that you<br />
are sending a pre-written letter to all complainants &#8211;<br />
<a href="http://www.badscience.net/?p=415" rel="nofollow">http://www.badscience.net/?p=415</a>  This is not an acceptable standard<br />
of service (I would expect a more considered response from the average<br />
call centre, let alone the BBC).  Please read my complaint and respond<br />
to my concerns: a &#8216;boilerplate&#8217; response is not acceptable.</p>
<p>One more point &#8211; your disclaimer (&#8220;This e-mail (and any attachments) is<br />
confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of<br />
the BBC unless specifically stated.  If you have received it in error,<br />
please delete it from your system.  Do not use, copy or disclose the<br />
information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender<br />
immediately.  Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or<br />
received.  Further communication will signify your consent to this&#8221;) is<br />
very badly written, and does not make any sense to me.  I therefore do<br />
not consent to this &#8211; I&#8217;m not even at all sure what it means &#8211; and if<br />
you really want to add a disclaimer to your e-mails, I would suggest<br />
that the BBC writes something more coherent.</p>
<p>&#8230;<br />
<a href="mailto:info@bbc.co.uk">info@bbc.co.uk</a> wrote:<br />
&gt; &gt; Dear Mr J<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; Many thanks for taking the time to get in touch following our show,<br />
Wi-Fi &#8211; A Warning Signal.<br />
&gt; &gt; I&#8217;m sorry if you believe the programme lacked the hard evidence you<br />
wanted to see.  Unfortunately, the truth is that as things stand, there<br />
is no hard evidence regarding the effects of long term exposure to Wi-Fi<br />
which is why we made the programme.<br />
&gt; &gt; Wi-Fi is being rolled out into classrooms around the country by the<br />
Government contrary to the precautionary approach recommended by the<br />
head of its own advisory body Sir William Stewart &#8211; chair of the Health<br />
Protection Agency.  As you will have seen in the programme, he believes<br />
that where radiation is concerned we should base policy on the<br />
precautionary principle particularly when it comes to children.  This<br />
therefore raises questions as to whether Wi-Fi should be rolled out into<br />
the classroom without any long term health research being carried out.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; Many scientists criticise the way in which the radiation exposure<br />
limits are set in this country.  The programme featured both the WHO<br />
position and ICNIRP who base their limits on what they term a &#8220;thermal<br />
effect&#8221;.  It is this view that courts criticism from some scientists,<br />
including those featured in our programme, because the safety limits do<br />
not take into account a biological effect which some scientists say they<br />
have found evidence of.  The reason why these positions were not<br />
represented by different people is that Dr Michael Repacholi is perhaps<br />
the most qualified person to answer such questions given that he was the<br />
founding chair of ICNIRP (and continues to be Emeritus Chairman) and<br />
because he set up and headed the WHO EMF project for ten years.<br />
However, he was given the opportunity to make his position clear in the<br />
programme.<br />
&gt; &gt; The other scientists in the film are all experts in their fields who<br />
have concerns that we are rushing forward into something before it&#8217;s<br />
been around long enough to know what the long term effects could be.<br />
&gt; &gt; The fact that the Swedish government recognises radiation sensitivity<br />
as a disability that affects 3% of the population was, we felt, of<br />
interest given our Government&#8217;s publicly stated view that this condition<br />
does not exist.<br />
&gt; &gt; The programme attempted to raise concern without causing alarm &#8211;<br />
always a difficult balance to strike but one which we believe we<br />
achieved.<br />
&gt; &gt; Please continue to let us know your views on the programmes as they<br />
are always welcome and we hope you keep watching.<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; Regards<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; BBC Panorama<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; &#8212;&#8211;Original Message&#8212;&#8211;<br />
&gt; &gt;<br />
&gt; &gt; [...]<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; {Comments:}<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; I was appalled by the Panorama programme on electrosmog.  This<br />
appeared to uncritically accept the agenda of groups such as Powerwatch<br />
(which have a vested interest in selling &#8216;treatments&#8217; for<br />
electrosensitivity and electrosmog) while at the same time smearing<br />
scientists who challenge scaremongering about electrosmog by focusing on<br />
their links to mobile phone companies.  I am sure that you will have<br />
received a number of e-mails about this programme, so I will just list a<br />
few mistakes which jumped out at me.  Why didn&#8217;t you give a proper<br />
explanation of what &#8216;radiation&#8217; means (everything from light bulbs to TV<br />
masts emit radiation)?  Just referring to wifi equipment emitting<br />
&#8216;radiation&#8217;, without contextualising this, sounds unnecessarily scary.<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; There is no such thing as an &#8216;official disability&#8217; in Sweden, so why<br />
did the programme refer to such &#8216;official disabilities&#8217;?<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Re. the woman who could &#8216;detect&#8217; EMR two thirds of the time &#8211; was<br />
this statistically significant?  Did the programme-makers check?  If so,<br />
why didn&#8217;t they tell the viewers?  If it wasnÃƒ&#8221;t statistically<br />
significant, then the fact that she could &#8216;detect&#8217; this EMR 2/3 of the<br />
time was irrelevant.<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Why did you allow Powerwatch to advertise their &#8216;electrosmog<br />
detector&#8217; and their &#8217;shielding&#8217; products, without testing these products<br />
for efficacy or utility?<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Why did you imply that hard-wiring a classroom is risk-free?  Aside<br />
from obvious risks (e.g. tripping over a wire) I&#8217;m sure you know that<br />
running a current through a wire will generate an electromagnetic field.<br />
 If you want to be paranoid about this stuff (I don&#8217;t, but it seems<br />
Panorama does) then how do we know this is risk free?  Where are the<br />
long-term studies?  Nothing in life is risk-free (though many things are<br />
sufficiently low-risk that the benefits far outweigh the risks).<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<br />
&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; [...]</p>
<p>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Anecdotally, a number of schools have been having to deal with<br />
requests from parents to disable their wireless networks after the<br />
Panorama broadcast.  Did you think about how your programme would impact<br />
on provision for students with learning difficulties?</p>
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		<title>By: megachicken(b)</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13664</link>
		<dc:creator>megachicken(b)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13664</guid>
		<description>&quot;At one time scientists assured us the atomic bomb was harmless&quot; 

Er - say what now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;At one time scientists assured us the atomic bomb was harmless&#8221; </p>
<p>Er &#8211; say what now?</p>
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		<title>By: troutboy</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13663</link>
		<dc:creator>troutboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:52:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13663</guid>
		<description>Hi all. Long time lurker first time poster (well second actually).

Julia Stephenson has produced a cast iron response to the criticism she&#039;s been getting. Naturally all our questions are now answered.

http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2624123.ece</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all. Long time lurker first time poster (well second actually).</p>
<p>Julia Stephenson has produced a cast iron response to the criticism she&#8217;s been getting. Naturally all our questions are now answered.</p>
<p><a href="http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2624123.ece" rel="nofollow">http://environment.independent.co.uk/lifestyle/article2624123.ece</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ray C.</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13662</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13662</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.la.utexas.edu/research/poltheory/james/blaste/blaste.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;James I of England on tobacco&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
A custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So much for tobacco once having been thought to be harmless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.la.utexas.edu/research/poltheory/james/blaste/blaste.html" rel="nofollow">James I of England on tobacco</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>
A custome lothsome to the eye, hatefull to the Nose, harmefull to the braine, dangerous to the Lungs, and in the blacke stinking fume thereof, neerest resembling the horrible Stigian smoke of the pit that is bottomelesse.
</p></blockquote>
<p>So much for tobacco once having been thought to be harmless.</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13660</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13660</guid>
		<description>one more thing - I think Carrot&#039;s history is almost as bad as his science.  He says that if you said in 1950 that tobacco causes cancer, you&#039;d be put in a home with the flat earthers.  However, in the 1940s the American Cancer society was warning of possible ill effects - and apparently evidence on the correllation had began emerging in the 30s (http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/tobacco/history/).  

Why worry about pesky things like facts, though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>one more thing &#8211; I think Carrot&#8217;s history is almost as bad as his science.  He says that if you said in 1950 that tobacco causes cancer, you&#8217;d be put in a home with the flat earthers.  However, in the 1940s the American Cancer society was warning of possible ill effects &#8211; and apparently evidence on the correllation had began emerging in the 30s (<a href="http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/tobacco/history/" rel="nofollow">http://www.cnn.com/US/9705/tobacco/history/</a>).  </p>
<p>Why worry about pesky things like facts, though&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: j</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13659</link>
		<dc:creator>j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13659</guid>
		<description>&quot;by the way heâ€™s being serious here. A serious NIMBY.&quot;

Yep, typical NIMBYism - he wants to use his &#039;protected&#039; mobile phone, but have mobile phone masts sited well away from him.  In other words, he doesn&#039;t want to lose the (minor) convenience of a mobile phone - and is quite prepared for others to suffer from the supposed risks of the mobile phone masts this requires, so long as this &#039;danger&#039; is kept away from him.

Nice bloke, isn&#039;t he - as bright as he is altruistic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;by the way heâ€™s being serious here. A serious NIMBY.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yep, typical NIMBYism &#8211; he wants to use his &#8216;protected&#8217; mobile phone, but have mobile phone masts sited well away from him.  In other words, he doesn&#8217;t want to lose the (minor) convenience of a mobile phone &#8211; and is quite prepared for others to suffer from the supposed risks of the mobile phone masts this requires, so long as this &#8216;danger&#8217; is kept away from him.</p>
<p>Nice bloke, isn&#8217;t he &#8211; as bright as he is altruistic.</p>
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		<title>By: spudhead</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13658</link>
		<dc:creator>spudhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 12:45:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13658</guid>
		<description>Haha Jasper Carrot has &quot;a protection&quot; on his mobile phone. Tinfoil hat, or something more sophisticated?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haha Jasper Carrot has &#8220;a protection&#8221; on his mobile phone. Tinfoil hat, or something more sophisticated?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: briantist@work</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13656</link>
		<dc:creator>briantist@work</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jun 2007 11:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13656</guid>
		<description>As The Daily Politics disappears from the BBC Website after 24 hours, here is the Jasper Carrot thingy on Google Video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1815884563738845754</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As The Daily Politics disappears from the BBC Website after 24 hours, here is the Jasper Carrot thingy on Google Video:</p>
<p><a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1815884563738845754" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1815884563738845754</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ambrielle</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13641</link>
		<dc:creator>Ambrielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13641</guid>
		<description>Re #123: you are right. It also drives me insane when these charlatans bend the truth or flat-out knowingly lie. Eventually they are caught at it, but by then the damage has been done. There is absolutely no punishment or consequence to them, other than their bank accounts being nicely topped up. It&#039;s disgusting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re #123: you are right. It also drives me insane when these charlatans bend the truth or flat-out knowingly lie. Eventually they are caught at it, but by then the damage has been done. There is absolutely no punishment or consequence to them, other than their bank accounts being nicely topped up. It&#8217;s disgusting.</p>
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		<title>By: briantist</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13640</link>
		<dc:creator>briantist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13640</guid>
		<description>by the way he&#039;s being serious here.  A serious NIMBY.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>by the way he&#8217;s being serious here.  A serious NIMBY.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: briantist</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13639</link>
		<dc:creator>briantist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 23:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13639</guid>
		<description>Comedian Jasper Carrot and mobile phone masts from BBC TWO&#039;s The Daily Politics, 6 June 2007 ~1250. Also features Jenny Scott and Andrew Neil and guests. Mr Carrot compares mobile phone masts to TOBACCO! 

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1815884563738845754</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comedian Jasper Carrot and mobile phone masts from BBC TWO&#8217;s The Daily Politics, 6 June 2007 ~1250. Also features Jenny Scott and Andrew Neil and guests. Mr Carrot compares mobile phone masts to TOBACCO! </p>
<p><a href="http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1815884563738845754" rel="nofollow">http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=1815884563738845754</a></p>
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		<title>By: raygirvan</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13637</link>
		<dc:creator>raygirvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:02:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13637</guid>
		<description>Regarding Wikipedia, the &quot;see also&quot;  articles are far more biased on this topic (&lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_hazard&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Electromagnetic radiation hazard&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_radiation_and_health&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mobile phone radiation and health&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_electronic_devices_and_health&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Wireless electronic devices and health&lt;/a&gt;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Wikipedia, the &#8220;see also&#8221;  articles are far more biased on this topic (<a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation_hazard" rel="nofollow">Electromagnetic radiation hazard</a>, <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone_radiation_and_health" rel="nofollow">Mobile phone radiation and health</a>, <a HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_electronic_devices_and_health" rel="nofollow">Wireless electronic devices and health</a>).</p>
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		<title>By: sideshowjim</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/06/electrosensitives-the-new-cash-cow-of-the-woo-industry/comment-page-3/#comment-13631</link>
		<dc:creator>sideshowjim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=425#comment-13631</guid>
		<description>Wouldn&#039;t a faraday cage work better than a magic pendant? Just a thought...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wouldn&#8217;t a faraday cage work better than a magic pendant? Just a thought&#8230;</p>
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