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	<title>Comments on: Imaginary numbers</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: diudiu</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-30192</link>
		<dc:creator>diudiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:48:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-30192</guid>
		<description>ed hardy &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy clothing &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy clothing&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy clothing&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy jeans &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy jeans&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy jeans&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
christian audigier &lt;a title=&quot;christian audigier&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/christian-audigier.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;christian audigier&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy t shirts &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy t shirts&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy t shirts&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy uk &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy uk&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy uk&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy bags &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy bags&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy bags&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy hoodies &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy hoodies&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy hoodies&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy mens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy mens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/mens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy mens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy womens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy womens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/womens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy womens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy kids &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy kids&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/kids.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy kids&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt; ed hardy kids</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ed hardy <a title="ed hardy" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy</strong></a><br />
ed hardy clothing <a title="ed hardy clothing" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy clothing</strong></a><br />
ed hardy jeans <a title="ed hardy jeans" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy jeans</strong></a><br />
christian audigier <a title="christian audigier" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/christian-audigier.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>christian audigier</strong></a><br />
ed hardy t shirts <a title="ed hardy t shirts" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy t shirts</strong></a><br />
ed hardy uk <a title="ed hardy uk" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy uk</strong></a><br />
ed hardy bags <a title="ed hardy bags" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy bags</strong></a><br />
ed hardy hoodies <a title="ed hardy hoodies" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy hoodies</strong></a><br />
ed hardy mens <a title="ed hardy mens" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/mens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy mens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy womens <a title="ed hardy womens" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/womens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy womens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy kids <a title="ed hardy kids" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/kids.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy kids</strong></a> ed hardy kids</p>
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		<title>By: ajo1979</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16767</link>
		<dc:creator>ajo1979</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16767</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a bit late to the party, I know, but I wanted to respond to Isabel&#039;s comment that the agency did a poor job of marketing the brand because Veet was barely mentioned.

The trick is that this press release was never intended to advertise Veet. It is there to provide &#039;original publicised research&#039; that can back claims made in future press releases.

Now they can say something like &quot;Stop being hairy! Cambridge boffins prove smoother legs key to feminine beauty. Experts recommend Veet!&quot;

The first statement is now backed by Dr Weber AND (more crucially), the Telegraph, both of whom I think should have stayed well clear. The second statement could be backed by any number of &#039;beauty experts&#039;.

I read a really interesting (and very long) feature on this technique several years ago (I can&#039;t remember where, and Google offers no clues - sorry) and now I see it used every where - dubious research and made-up statistics are released as &quot;news&quot; to main-stream media. The advertisers use the references to endorse their products, giving weight and &#039;legitimacy&#039; to their outrageous claims.

Please note that I am only relaying what I have read, interspersed with my own beliefs. I am neither an advertiser or a researcher so I have no first hand experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a bit late to the party, I know, but I wanted to respond to Isabel&#8217;s comment that the agency did a poor job of marketing the brand because Veet was barely mentioned.</p>
<p>The trick is that this press release was never intended to advertise Veet. It is there to provide &#8216;original publicised research&#8217; that can back claims made in future press releases.</p>
<p>Now they can say something like &#8220;Stop being hairy! Cambridge boffins prove smoother legs key to feminine beauty. Experts recommend Veet!&#8221;</p>
<p>The first statement is now backed by Dr Weber AND (more crucially), the Telegraph, both of whom I think should have stayed well clear. The second statement could be backed by any number of &#8216;beauty experts&#8217;.</p>
<p>I read a really interesting (and very long) feature on this technique several years ago (I can&#8217;t remember where, and Google offers no clues &#8211; sorry) and now I see it used every where &#8211; dubious research and made-up statistics are released as &#8220;news&#8221; to main-stream media. The advertisers use the references to endorse their products, giving weight and &#8216;legitimacy&#8217; to their outrageous claims.</p>
<p>Please note that I am only relaying what I have read, interspersed with my own beliefs. I am neither an advertiser or a researcher so I have no first hand experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Maya</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16741</link>
		<dc:creator>Maya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 16:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16741</guid>
		<description>Might be a bit late to add to this discussion, but here is another bit on media coverage of scientists:
[on genetic deffects being spotted by facial scans]

When science and journalism collide  
By Nick Higham 
BBC News, York  
 
It&#039;s just the kind of thing you don&#039;t want at an event dedicated to improving communication between scientists and the rest of the world - a row about the way a particular piece of science is reported. 

But that&#039;s what the British Association for the Advancement of Science has had to contend with on the opening day of its annual Science Festival in York. 

Last Thursday, the Association held a press briefing to highlight some of the papers being delivered at the festival here in York. 

One in particular caught journalists&#039; imagination - a paper detailing work done by Professor Peter Hammond of the Institute of Child Health at University College London, and reported elsewhere on the BBC News website. 


The story, embargoed until Monday morning, got extensive coverage in that day&#039;s papers, including the Times, Telegraph, Guardian and Independent, and on BBC radio. 

When my colleagues at BBC News 24 saw the papers, they were keen to carry it as part of our coverage of the opening day of the festival: I told them that Professor Hammond had agreed over the weekend to do a live interview about his work for News 24 at 5.30 on Monday afternoon. 

But the interview never happened. Just after lunch on Monday, Professor Hammond cried off. He was, he said, extremely angry. His work had been misreported, he had been misquoted, and he wanted nothing more to do with the media. 

A colleague had warned him this would happen, he said, and he should have listened. I told him that a live television interview would give him an opportunity to put the record straight and he went away to think about that and to talk to the press office at the Institute of Child Health. But later he confirmed he was pulling out, saying he was &quot;too angry and too tired&quot; and might end up saying something he&#039;d regret. 

I can&#039;t tell you in detail what Professor Hammond was unhappy about, but I can give one example, because as we spoke he was holding a copy of the Yorkshire Post report on his work. 

It was headlined &quot;Hi-tech facial scans used to detect autism in children&quot;. That, said Professor Hammond, was wrong: his scans could not &quot;detect autism&quot;. 

Different tracks 

The piece (in common with much of the other reporting of his work) said his computer program could &quot;revolutionise diagnosis&quot; of children with genetic conditions: that too, was wrong, he said. 

Indeed, the Independent reported him as saying at last week&#039;s press conference, &quot;This is not diagnosis. The diagnosis is done by a clinician and a molecular geneticist doing the genetic testing.&quot; 

Finally, he said, the Yorkshire Post had quoted him as saying, &quot;you can spot a kid with Down&#039;s syndrome a mile away&quot;. That, he pointed out, was an insensitive remark; he simply hadn&#039;t made it. 

The piece in the Yorkshire Post was written by an experienced freelance journalist, Richard Sadler, who was not at last week&#039;s press conference but had spoken to Professor Hammond on the phone. 

He told me that Professor Hammond had indeed made the remark about Down&#039;s syndrome: &quot;It may not sound terribly PC, but that&#039;s what he said,&quot; according to Sadler. 

He thought it was permissible to talk about &quot;diagnosis&quot; since Professor Hammond&#039;s software was part of the &quot;diagnostic process&quot;. As to the headline, Sadler said he hadn&#039;t written it, though he had written the Yorkshire Post&#039;s opening paragraph: &quot;Scientists have developed a computerised face recognition system that can instantly diagnose autism and other genetically inherited diseases by homing in on tell-tale differences in facial features&quot;. 

&#039;The challenge&#039; 

Anyone familiar with journalism knows its limitations, and many people will tell you that stories about things of which they have personal knowledge often contain inaccuracies or misunderstandings. 

Scientists, operating in a culture which places enormous importance on accuracy and precision, can find reporters&#039; occasional sloppiness infuriating. 

Equally, journalists often find scientists unworldly in their insistence on caveats and qualifications at every turn and their use of technical language, when reporters are desperately trying to simplify complex concepts and make them accessible to a general audience. 

Nevertheless Professor Hammond&#039;s reaction seems to have been unusually vehement. So I asked the British Association&#039;s chief executive, Sir Roland Jackson, whether problems of this sort were common. No, he said; this case was unusual and unfortunate. 

&quot;It illustrates the nature of our challenge in trying to encourage scientists to interact more openly. Whenever you talk with someone else, there&#039;s a danger of being misrepresented,&quot; he said. &quot;But from my point of view, for scientists to withdraw into their shells and to stop communicating would be completely unproductive.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Might be a bit late to add to this discussion, but here is another bit on media coverage of scientists:<br />
[on genetic deffects being spotted by facial scans]</p>
<p>When science and journalism collide<br />
By Nick Higham<br />
BBC News, York  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s just the kind of thing you don&#8217;t want at an event dedicated to improving communication between scientists and the rest of the world &#8211; a row about the way a particular piece of science is reported. </p>
<p>But that&#8217;s what the British Association for the Advancement of Science has had to contend with on the opening day of its annual Science Festival in York. </p>
<p>Last Thursday, the Association held a press briefing to highlight some of the papers being delivered at the festival here in York. </p>
<p>One in particular caught journalists&#8217; imagination &#8211; a paper detailing work done by Professor Peter Hammond of the Institute of Child Health at University College London, and reported elsewhere on the BBC News website. </p>
<p>The story, embargoed until Monday morning, got extensive coverage in that day&#8217;s papers, including the Times, Telegraph, Guardian and Independent, and on BBC radio. </p>
<p>When my colleagues at BBC News 24 saw the papers, they were keen to carry it as part of our coverage of the opening day of the festival: I told them that Professor Hammond had agreed over the weekend to do a live interview about his work for News 24 at 5.30 on Monday afternoon. </p>
<p>But the interview never happened. Just after lunch on Monday, Professor Hammond cried off. He was, he said, extremely angry. His work had been misreported, he had been misquoted, and he wanted nothing more to do with the media. </p>
<p>A colleague had warned him this would happen, he said, and he should have listened. I told him that a live television interview would give him an opportunity to put the record straight and he went away to think about that and to talk to the press office at the Institute of Child Health. But later he confirmed he was pulling out, saying he was &#8220;too angry and too tired&#8221; and might end up saying something he&#8217;d regret. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you in detail what Professor Hammond was unhappy about, but I can give one example, because as we spoke he was holding a copy of the Yorkshire Post report on his work. </p>
<p>It was headlined &#8220;Hi-tech facial scans used to detect autism in children&#8221;. That, said Professor Hammond, was wrong: his scans could not &#8220;detect autism&#8221;. </p>
<p>Different tracks </p>
<p>The piece (in common with much of the other reporting of his work) said his computer program could &#8220;revolutionise diagnosis&#8221; of children with genetic conditions: that too, was wrong, he said. </p>
<p>Indeed, the Independent reported him as saying at last week&#8217;s press conference, &#8220;This is not diagnosis. The diagnosis is done by a clinician and a molecular geneticist doing the genetic testing.&#8221; </p>
<p>Finally, he said, the Yorkshire Post had quoted him as saying, &#8220;you can spot a kid with Down&#8217;s syndrome a mile away&#8221;. That, he pointed out, was an insensitive remark; he simply hadn&#8217;t made it. </p>
<p>The piece in the Yorkshire Post was written by an experienced freelance journalist, Richard Sadler, who was not at last week&#8217;s press conference but had spoken to Professor Hammond on the phone. </p>
<p>He told me that Professor Hammond had indeed made the remark about Down&#8217;s syndrome: &#8220;It may not sound terribly PC, but that&#8217;s what he said,&#8221; according to Sadler. </p>
<p>He thought it was permissible to talk about &#8220;diagnosis&#8221; since Professor Hammond&#8217;s software was part of the &#8220;diagnostic process&#8221;. As to the headline, Sadler said he hadn&#8217;t written it, though he had written the Yorkshire Post&#8217;s opening paragraph: &#8220;Scientists have developed a computerised face recognition system that can instantly diagnose autism and other genetically inherited diseases by homing in on tell-tale differences in facial features&#8221;. </p>
<p>&#8216;The challenge&#8217; </p>
<p>Anyone familiar with journalism knows its limitations, and many people will tell you that stories about things of which they have personal knowledge often contain inaccuracies or misunderstandings. </p>
<p>Scientists, operating in a culture which places enormous importance on accuracy and precision, can find reporters&#8217; occasional sloppiness infuriating. </p>
<p>Equally, journalists often find scientists unworldly in their insistence on caveats and qualifications at every turn and their use of technical language, when reporters are desperately trying to simplify complex concepts and make them accessible to a general audience. </p>
<p>Nevertheless Professor Hammond&#8217;s reaction seems to have been unusually vehement. So I asked the British Association&#8217;s chief executive, Sir Roland Jackson, whether problems of this sort were common. No, he said; this case was unusual and unfortunate. </p>
<p>&#8220;It illustrates the nature of our challenge in trying to encourage scientists to interact more openly. Whenever you talk with someone else, there&#8217;s a danger of being misrepresented,&#8221; he said. &#8220;But from my point of view, for scientists to withdraw into their shells and to stop communicating would be completely unproductive.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: testtubebabe</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16686</link>
		<dc:creator>testtubebabe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 12:33:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16686</guid>
		<description>Not since the time it dissolved my nose</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not since the time it dissolved my nose</p>
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		<title>By: Deano</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16678</link>
		<dc:creator>Deano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Sep 2007 03:05:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16678</guid>
		<description>From the general lack of interest in my post  I take it none of you have actually smelt Thioglycolic acid then???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the general lack of interest in my post  I take it none of you have actually smelt Thioglycolic acid then???</p>
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		<title>By: Ginger Yellow</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16649</link>
		<dc:creator>Ginger Yellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 11:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16649</guid>
		<description>I presume this sort of deceptive advertising by press release isn&#039;t covered by the Advertisising Standards Agency. A shame, really, because it is very bad for science. It&#039;s arguably more corrosive of understanding, trust and respect for science than creationism, at least in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I presume this sort of deceptive advertising by press release isn&#8217;t covered by the Advertisising Standards Agency. A shame, really, because it is very bad for science. It&#8217;s arguably more corrosive of understanding, trust and respect for science than creationism, at least in the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: magenta</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16646</link>
		<dc:creator>magenta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 10:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16646</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, I felt the article in the paper got your point across just as well, at least to this reader. It&#039;s illuminating to read the extra stuff here, but the article still works in its abbreviated form. There are times when editing really has messed up the point you were trying to make, but I don&#039;t think this was one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, I felt the article in the paper got your point across just as well, at least to this reader. It&#8217;s illuminating to read the extra stuff here, but the article still works in its abbreviated form. There are times when editing really has messed up the point you were trying to make, but I don&#8217;t think this was one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: CaptainKirkham</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16644</link>
		<dc:creator>CaptainKirkham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 09:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16644</guid>
		<description>As a grumpy youngish woman, I too find this pseudoscientific claptrap demeaning and trivial. 

I also think most of you are being far too generous to the good Professor Weber.  Naivety is about the most generous interpretation of the fact that he added his name and a lengthy &quot;analysis&quot; to what was clearly a PR stunt.  &quot;Sexiness of walk&quot; indeed!  Oh yes, lots of good opportunities to get some serious maths/stats/science in the media there!  Please.  I&#039;m sure the fee had nothing to do with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a grumpy youngish woman, I too find this pseudoscientific claptrap demeaning and trivial. </p>
<p>I also think most of you are being far too generous to the good Professor Weber.  Naivety is about the most generous interpretation of the fact that he added his name and a lengthy &#8220;analysis&#8221; to what was clearly a PR stunt.  &#8220;Sexiness of walk&#8221; indeed!  Oh yes, lots of good opportunities to get some serious maths/stats/science in the media there!  Please.  I&#8217;m sure the fee had nothing to do with it.</p>
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		<title>By: ShatterFace</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16641</link>
		<dc:creator>ShatterFace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:31:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16641</guid>
		<description>Ben, you were asking about ideas for good website design. 

Number One Idea would be including a way for posters to go back and edit their earlier comments. 

It could save so many problems. 

At the very least we wouldn&#039;t have to resort to lame jokes in order to save face!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, you were asking about ideas for good website design. </p>
<p>Number One Idea would be including a way for posters to go back and edit their earlier comments. </p>
<p>It could save so many problems. </p>
<p>At the very least we wouldn&#8217;t have to resort to lame jokes in order to save face!</p>
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		<title>By: ShatterFace</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16640</link>
		<dc:creator>ShatterFace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16640</guid>
		<description>Or Tai girl. 

Somebody should sort these countries out. 

Didn&#039;t we have an Empire or something to stop this kind of confusion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or Tai girl. </p>
<p>Somebody should sort these countries out. </p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t we have an Empire or something to stop this kind of confusion?</p>
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		<title>By: ShatterFace</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16639</link>
		<dc:creator>ShatterFace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2007 08:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16639</guid>
		<description>&#039;&#039;“So how come Taiwan’s so famous for it’s ladyboys (Kathoeys)?” Because you’re thinking of Thailand, not Taiwan.&#039;&#039;

Ah, that would explain why that Thai girl slapped me when I aksed her about her op, and my consequent arrest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221;“So how come Taiwan’s so famous for it’s ladyboys (Kathoeys)?” Because you’re thinking of Thailand, not Taiwan.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, that would explain why that Thai girl slapped me when I aksed her about her op, and my consequent arrest.</p>
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		<title>By: Fan Gao Rui</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16630</link>
		<dc:creator>Fan Gao Rui</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 16:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16630</guid>
		<description>&quot;So how come Taiwan’s so famous for it’s ladyboys (Kathoeys)?&quot; Because you&#039;re thinking of Thailand, not Taiwan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So how come Taiwan’s so famous for it’s ladyboys (Kathoeys)?&#8221; Because you&#8217;re thinking of Thailand, not Taiwan.</p>
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		<title>By: ShatterFace</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16629</link>
		<dc:creator>ShatterFace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 14:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16629</guid>
		<description>&#039;&#039;The authors hypothesized that Taiwanese men would exhibit less dissatisfaction with their bodies than Western men and that Taiwanese advertising would place less value on the male body than Western media.&#039;&#039;

So how come Taiwan&#039;s so famous for it&#039;s ladyboys (Kathoeys)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221;The authors hypothesized that Taiwanese men would exhibit less dissatisfaction with their bodies than Western men and that Taiwanese advertising would place less value on the male body than Western media.&#8221;</p>
<p>So how come Taiwan&#8217;s so famous for it&#8217;s ladyboys (Kathoeys)?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: DS</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16625</link>
		<dc:creator>DS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 12:21:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16625</guid>
		<description>To be honest, it looks as if Prof Weber has been guilty of perhaps being a little over-frivolous, but not too much else. And the tone of his email to you is a fairly solid indicator.

Unfortunately, we now exist in a climate where universities must constantly be subjecting themselves to media exposure, whoring themselves to the whim of the market and the banal tyranny of RAE  and so these things are increasingly likely to happen.

Still, at this point I though you would have been doing a victory dance, having seen the hideous poo woman expunged from our TV screens.
One more small victory for common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be honest, it looks as if Prof Weber has been guilty of perhaps being a little over-frivolous, but not too much else. And the tone of his email to you is a fairly solid indicator.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, we now exist in a climate where universities must constantly be subjecting themselves to media exposure, whoring themselves to the whim of the market and the banal tyranny of RAE  and so these things are increasingly likely to happen.</p>
<p>Still, at this point I though you would have been doing a victory dance, having seen the hideous poo woman expunged from our TV screens.<br />
One more small victory for common sense.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Maya</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16623</link>
		<dc:creator>Maya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16623</guid>
		<description>Ben suggested I post this as a comment - check this and other articles by the authors (full article is free access):

Am J Psychiatry. 2005 Feb;162(2):263-9. 

Male body image in Taiwan versus the West: Yanggang Zhiqi meets the Adonis complex. 

Yang CF, Gray P, Pope HG Jr.

Department of Anthropology, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, USA.

OBJECTIVE: Body image disorders appear to be more prevalent in Western than non-Western men. Previous studies by the authors have shown that young Western men display unrealistic body ideals and that Western advertising seems to place an increasing value on the male body. The authors hypothesized that Taiwanese men would exhibit less dissatisfaction with their bodies than Western men and that Taiwanese advertising would place less value on the male body than Western media. METHOD: The authors administered a computerized test of body image to 55 heterosexual men in Taiwan and compared the results to those previously obtained in an identical study in the United States and Europe. Second, they counted the number of undressed male and female models in American versus Taiwanese women&#039;s magazine advertisements. RESULTS: In the body image study, the Taiwanese men exhibited significantly less body dissatisfaction than their Western counterparts. In the magazine study, American magazine advertisements portrayed undressed Western men frequently, but Taiwanese magazines portrayed undressed Asian men rarely. CONCLUSIONS: Taiwan appears less preoccupied with male body image than Western societies. This difference may reflect 1) Western traditions emphasizing muscularity and fitness as a measure of masculinity, 2) increasing exposure of Western men to muscular male bodies in media images, and 3) greater decline in traditional male roles in the West, leading to greater emphasis on the body as a measure of masculinity. These factors may explain why body dysmorphic disorder and anabolic steroid abuse are more serious problems in the West than in Taiwan. 

PMID: 15677589 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben suggested I post this as a comment &#8211; check this and other articles by the authors (full article is free access):</p>
<p>Am J Psychiatry. 2005 Feb;162(2):263-9. </p>
<p>Male body image in Taiwan versus the West: Yanggang Zhiqi meets the Adonis complex. </p>
<p>Yang CF, Gray P, Pope HG Jr.</p>
<p>Department of Anthropology, Harvard University, Cambridge, MA, USA.</p>
<p>OBJECTIVE: Body image disorders appear to be more prevalent in Western than non-Western men. Previous studies by the authors have shown that young Western men display unrealistic body ideals and that Western advertising seems to place an increasing value on the male body. The authors hypothesized that Taiwanese men would exhibit less dissatisfaction with their bodies than Western men and that Taiwanese advertising would place less value on the male body than Western media. METHOD: The authors administered a computerized test of body image to 55 heterosexual men in Taiwan and compared the results to those previously obtained in an identical study in the United States and Europe. Second, they counted the number of undressed male and female models in American versus Taiwanese women&#8217;s magazine advertisements. RESULTS: In the body image study, the Taiwanese men exhibited significantly less body dissatisfaction than their Western counterparts. In the magazine study, American magazine advertisements portrayed undressed Western men frequently, but Taiwanese magazines portrayed undressed Asian men rarely. CONCLUSIONS: Taiwan appears less preoccupied with male body image than Western societies. This difference may reflect 1) Western traditions emphasizing muscularity and fitness as a measure of masculinity, 2) increasing exposure of Western men to muscular male bodies in media images, and 3) greater decline in traditional male roles in the West, leading to greater emphasis on the body as a measure of masculinity. These factors may explain why body dysmorphic disorder and anabolic steroid abuse are more serious problems in the West than in Taiwan. </p>
<p>PMID: 15677589 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: tomrees</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16622</link>
		<dc:creator>tomrees</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16622</guid>
		<description>The WHR is mostly driven by two variables - width of the pelvic girdle and adiposity. Throughout most of human evolution, high numbers on both have good for childbirth (although not necessarily good for walking).

It&#039;s only in recent years that fatness has become an indicator of poor health prospects and natal complications, leading us to favour smaller WHRs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The WHR is mostly driven by two variables &#8211; width of the pelvic girdle and adiposity. Throughout most of human evolution, high numbers on both have good for childbirth (although not necessarily good for walking).</p>
<p>It&#8217;s only in recent years that fatness has become an indicator of poor health prospects and natal complications, leading us to favour smaller WHRs.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ShatterFace</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16621</link>
		<dc:creator>ShatterFace</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16621</guid>
		<description>&#039;&#039;gadgeezer said,
September 3, 2007 at 10:03 am 

Jessica Alba - Dark Angel, Sin City and Fantastic Four. In general, slopes about film sets looking fantastic in leather - possibly that’s just me and if Mrs G were to read this, I throw myself upon the mercy of the court.&#039;&#039;

It&#039;s a scientific fact that blonde hair and blue eye shadow don&#039;t suit her, and that &#039;Into the Blue&#039; is better than &#039;Fantastic Four&#039;.

I&#039;ll get my coat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221;gadgeezer said,<br />
September 3, 2007 at 10:03 am </p>
<p>Jessica Alba &#8211; Dark Angel, Sin City and Fantastic Four. In general, slopes about film sets looking fantastic in leather &#8211; possibly that’s just me and if Mrs G were to read this, I throw myself upon the mercy of the court.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a scientific fact that blonde hair and blue eye shadow don&#8217;t suit her, and that &#8216;Into the Blue&#8217; is better than &#8216;Fantastic Four&#8217;.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll get my coat.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Min</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16620</link>
		<dc:creator>Min</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 11:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16620</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t that just another &quot;just-so&quot; story like the Girls Prefer Pink Cos Of Hunter-Gathering And Stuff one? If you look across history and societies then it&#039;s mostly cultural.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t that just another &#8220;just-so&#8221; story like the Girls Prefer Pink Cos Of Hunter-Gathering And Stuff one? If you look across history and societies then it&#8217;s mostly cultural.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Maya</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16618</link>
		<dc:creator>Maya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:22:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16618</guid>
		<description>I always thought the hip to waist ratio preference was due to a certain ratio making it more likely that you would have a successful pregnancy and survive delivery (as a mother). But if there are ethnic variations perhaps this is not true?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought the hip to waist ratio preference was due to a certain ratio making it more likely that you would have a successful pregnancy and survive delivery (as a mother). But if there are ethnic variations perhaps this is not true?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gadgeezer</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/09/imaginary-numbers/comment-page-1/#comment-16616</link>
		<dc:creator>gadgeezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Sep 2007 09:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=520#comment-16616</guid>
		<description>Jessica Alba - &lt;i&gt;Dark Angel&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Sin City&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Fantastic Four&lt;/i&gt;. In general, slopes about film sets looking fantastic in leather - possibly that&#039;s just me and if Mrs G were to read this, I throw myself upon the mercy of the court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jessica Alba &#8211; <i>Dark Angel</i>, <i>Sin City</i> and <i>Fantastic Four</i>. In general, slopes about film sets looking fantastic in leather &#8211; possibly that&#8217;s just me and if Mrs G were to read this, I throw myself upon the mercy of the court.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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