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	<title>Comments on: Oooooh I&#8217;m in the Minority Report!</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<item>
		<title>By: Snuggie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-3/#comment-30896</link>
		<dc:creator>Snuggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 08:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-30896</guid>
		<description>Snuggie blanket &lt;a href=&quot;//www.snuggieblanketsale.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Snuggie blanket&lt;/a&gt;
blanket with sleeves &lt;a href=&quot;//www.snuggieblanketsale.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blanket with sleeves&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snuggie blanket <a href="//www.snuggieblanketsale.com/" rel="nofollow">Snuggie blanket</a><br />
blanket with sleeves <a href="//www.snuggieblanketsale.com/" rel="nofollow">blanket with sleeves</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: diudiu</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-3/#comment-30177</link>
		<dc:creator>diudiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-30177</guid>
		<description>ed hardy &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
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ed hardy jeans &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy jeans&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy jeans&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
christian audigier &lt;a title=&quot;christian audigier&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/christian-audigier.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;christian audigier&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
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ed hardy womens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy womens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/womens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy womens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy kids &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy kids&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyclub.com/kids.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy kids&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt; ed hardy kids</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ed hardy <a title="ed hardy" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy</strong></a><br />
ed hardy clothing <a title="ed hardy clothing" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy clothing</strong></a><br />
ed hardy jeans <a title="ed hardy jeans" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy jeans</strong></a><br />
christian audigier <a title="christian audigier" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/christian-audigier.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>christian audigier</strong></a><br />
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ed hardy mens <a title="ed hardy mens" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/mens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy mens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy womens <a title="ed hardy womens" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/womens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy womens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy kids <a title="ed hardy kids" href="http://www.edhardyclub.com/kids.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy kids</strong></a> ed hardy kids</p>
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		<title>By: PRJ</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-3/#comment-22321</link>
		<dc:creator>PRJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Sep 2008 21:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-22321</guid>
		<description>It should be noted

A French cohort study involving 12,432 women suggested
that “a history of induced abortion increases the risk of preterm delivery, particularly for women who have had repeated abortions”.

and

We recommend:
1. That in the context of conflicting expert evidence on fetal pain and viability, this lack of consensus should be fully acknowledged in the report and the committee should
adopt the precautionary principle giving the fetus the benefit of the doubt, until a clear consensus emerges.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be noted</p>
<p>A French cohort study involving 12,432 women suggested<br />
that “a history of induced abortion increases the risk of preterm delivery, particularly for women who have had repeated abortions”.</p>
<p>and</p>
<p>We recommend:<br />
1. That in the context of conflicting expert evidence on fetal pain and viability, this lack of consensus should be fully acknowledged in the report and the committee should<br />
adopt the precautionary principle giving the fetus the benefit of the doubt, until a clear consensus emerges.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-18047</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Nov 2007 00:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-18047</guid>
		<description>Trez: do you think the Church, or this particular member, isn&#039;t ahead of you?  All disease is a sin.  Some sins can be forgiven and the disease cured.  Some should not be.  Or something like that.  Materialist cures for sin, I think he&#039;d be persuaded to say, are an abomination.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trez: do you think the Church, or this particular member, isn&#8217;t ahead of you?  All disease is a sin.  Some sins can be forgiven and the disease cured.  Some should not be.  Or something like that.  Materialist cures for sin, I think he&#8217;d be persuaded to say, are an abomination.</p>
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		<title>By: Trez75</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17942</link>
		<dc:creator>Trez75</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 12:37:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17942</guid>
		<description>Christian Voice is basically a guy called Stephen Green. No-one knows how many other members there are because he won&#039;t tell anyone. The Co-Operative Bank closed his account because of his quite frankly fascist opinions and the BBC now won&#039;t allow him to speak on there either.

He basically has the opinion that if its against the word of the Bible then it needs to be discouraged no matter what the consequences. I was going to write to him and (jokingly) suggest that he should also campaign to withdraw NHS treatment for HIV to homosexuals or intravenous drug users. Or stop treatment for alcohol or smoking related illnesses. 
The Bible says that the body is a temple, and homosexuality a sin, so we deserve what we get.
Anyway I&#039;m going off thread here</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christian Voice is basically a guy called Stephen Green. No-one knows how many other members there are because he won&#8217;t tell anyone. The Co-Operative Bank closed his account because of his quite frankly fascist opinions and the BBC now won&#8217;t allow him to speak on there either.</p>
<p>He basically has the opinion that if its against the word of the Bible then it needs to be discouraged no matter what the consequences. I was going to write to him and (jokingly) suggest that he should also campaign to withdraw NHS treatment for HIV to homosexuals or intravenous drug users. Or stop treatment for alcohol or smoking related illnesses.<br />
The Bible says that the body is a temple, and homosexuality a sin, so we deserve what we get.<br />
Anyway I&#8217;m going off thread here</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: used to be jdc</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17941</link>
		<dc:creator>used to be jdc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Nov 2007 09:22:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17941</guid>
		<description>But Christian Voice do have a knack of picking up on the really important issues too: Sunday trading, homosexuality in the police...

*Britain in Sin is also available as a PDF. 31 pages of comedy gold. They even list the EU treaties that have broken the second commandment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But Christian Voice do have a knack of picking up on the really important issues too: Sunday trading, homosexuality in the police&#8230;</p>
<p>*Britain in Sin is also available as a PDF. 31 pages of comedy gold. They even list the EU treaties that have broken the second commandment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17940</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 23:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17940</guid>
		<description>Can you find out who &quot;Christian Voice&quot; actually is, or do anything with the site besides join and send money?  I see that &quot;Post hoc ergo propter hoc&quot; is their test of success, which I guess does make sense theologically.  Like praying for the Moon not to fall on the Earth - try it, it works...   I also notice that members get &quot;a free copy of Britain in Sin&quot;, is that the edition with foldout map?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you find out who &#8220;Christian Voice&#8221; actually is, or do anything with the site besides join and send money?  I see that &#8220;Post hoc ergo propter hoc&#8221; is their test of success, which I guess does make sense theologically.  Like praying for the Moon not to fall on the Earth &#8211; try it, it works&#8230;   I also notice that members get &#8220;a free copy of Britain in Sin&#8221;, is that the edition with foldout map?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Trez75</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17935</link>
		<dc:creator>Trez75</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Nov 2007 12:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17935</guid>
		<description>Its not the uterus&#039; fault. 
Well, not according to &quot;Christian Voice&quot; anyway. 

Apparently its all down to &quot;Gordon Browns cronies&quot; and other &quot;Pro-Death MP&#039;s&quot;.

http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press057.html

Having said that, they&#039;re also against the HPV vaccinations, as it will encourage promiscuity. They want to prevent something will reduce deaths due to cervical cancer on the grounds that in order to stop young unmarried people from &#039;doing the deed&#039; that we have to keep the threat of it killing them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its not the uterus&#8217; fault.<br />
Well, not according to &#8220;Christian Voice&#8221; anyway. </p>
<p>Apparently its all down to &#8220;Gordon Browns cronies&#8221; and other &#8220;Pro-Death MP&#8217;s&#8221;.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press057.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/Press/press057.html</a></p>
<p>Having said that, they&#8217;re also against the HPV vaccinations, as it will encourage promiscuity. They want to prevent something will reduce deaths due to cervical cancer on the grounds that in order to stop young unmarried people from &#8216;doing the deed&#8217; that we have to keep the threat of it killing them.</p>
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		<title>By: Diotima</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17924</link>
		<dc:creator>Diotima</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Nov 2007 08:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17924</guid>
		<description>&#039;Abortion&#039; is mainly performed by the uterus(the uterus perfoms quality control on its products). Ben could probably direct us to the very interesting US experiment in which a statistically significant sample of nurses, using no contraception and hoping to become pregant, allowed their menstrual blood to be checked regularly for evidence of foetal cells. It was (as I recall) found that up to 25% of pregnancies were ending in miscarriage quite early in pregnancy. So if there is an &#039;abortion industry&#039; we must point the finger at the uterus itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Abortion&#8217; is mainly performed by the uterus(the uterus perfoms quality control on its products). Ben could probably direct us to the very interesting US experiment in which a statistically significant sample of nurses, using no contraception and hoping to become pregant, allowed their menstrual blood to be checked regularly for evidence of foetal cells. It was (as I recall) found that up to 25% of pregnancies were ending in miscarriage quite early in pregnancy. So if there is an &#8216;abortion industry&#8217; we must point the finger at the uterus itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mojo</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17913</link>
		<dc:creator>Mojo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 10:16:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17913</guid>
		<description>The minority report is in the &quot;Formal minutes&quot; section, starting on page 71 of the report (page 75 of the pdf).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The minority report is in the &#8220;Formal minutes&#8221; section, starting on page 71 of the report (page 75 of the pdf).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: JohnD</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17909</link>
		<dc:creator>JohnD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 08:31:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17909</guid>
		<description>Ben,

Is it just me?
Clicking on your link (&quot;I’ve posted the PDF here, until it appears on the parliament website&quot;) to this Minority Report leads me back to the main report.

If it is me, I&#039;ll Google for it, or else please post the full URL.
If it isn&#039;t - has no one except you read it, including the above?

John</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben,</p>
<p>Is it just me?<br />
Clicking on your link (&#8220;I’ve posted the PDF here, until it appears on the parliament website&#8221;) to this Minority Report leads me back to the main report.</p>
<p>If it is me, I&#8217;ll Google for it, or else please post the full URL.<br />
If it isn&#8217;t &#8211; has no one except you read it, including the above?</p>
<p>John</p>
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		<title>By: nickyb</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17907</link>
		<dc:creator>nickyb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 04:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17907</guid>
		<description>From Dorine&#039;s blog about Evan:

&quot;Anyway, he took longer in make-up than I did, which is saying something. I was begining to worry they may replace us with another item.&quot;

Am I just a prissy, hysterical, uber-sensitive queen, or there more than a hint of homophobic smearing in this?

That&#039;s after she has had her fill of effectively calling him &quot;Dr Death&quot;.

What a vile woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From Dorine&#8217;s blog about Evan:</p>
<p>&#8220;Anyway, he took longer in make-up than I did, which is saying something. I was begining to worry they may replace us with another item.&#8221;</p>
<p>Am I just a prissy, hysterical, uber-sensitive queen, or there more than a hint of homophobic smearing in this?</p>
<p>That&#8217;s after she has had her fill of effectively calling him &#8220;Dr Death&#8221;.</p>
<p>What a vile woman.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Dr Aust</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17903</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Aust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Nov 2007 00:07:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17903</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re right about that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; Ministry of  Truth&lt;/a&gt; crew, Ben, they seem to have nailed the preposterous Dorries woman - &quot;Mad Nad&quot;, love it - fair and square.

It makes you wonder - just how big a mushwit do you have to be to be a Tory MP these days? On this evidence, there is certainly scope for plenty of mush. 

And meanwhile the &lt;i&gt;Daily Mail&lt;/i&gt; - or, as &lt;a href=&quot;http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Dr Crippen&#039;s blog&lt;/a&gt; used to call it, the &lt;i&gt;People&#039;s Medical   Journal&lt;/i&gt; - gives poor Evan Harris, a sensible MP with a viewpoint based on some actual real-world experience and a functioning brain, the &quot;Evil Dr Death&quot; treatment. 

*sigh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right about that <a href="http://www.ministryoftruth.org.uk/" rel="nofollow"> Ministry of  Truth</a> crew, Ben, they seem to have nailed the preposterous Dorries woman &#8211; &#8220;Mad Nad&#8221;, love it &#8211; fair and square.</p>
<p>It makes you wonder &#8211; just how big a mushwit do you have to be to be a Tory MP these days? On this evidence, there is certainly scope for plenty of mush. </p>
<p>And meanwhile the <i>Daily Mail</i> &#8211; or, as <a href="http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">Dr Crippen&#8217;s blog</a> used to call it, the <i>People&#8217;s Medical   Journal</i> &#8211; gives poor Evan Harris, a sensible MP with a viewpoint based on some actual real-world experience and a functioning brain, the &#8220;Evil Dr Death&#8221; treatment. </p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
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		<title>By: PalMD</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17902</link>
		<dc:creator>PalMD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 20:35:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17902</guid>
		<description>You are one sneaky &lt;i&gt;mamzer&lt;/i&gt;...seriously though, it took at least a little work to dig up and read primary sources--while not nefarious, it&#039;s worth a few journalism points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You are one sneaky <i>mamzer</i>&#8230;seriously though, it took at least a little work to dig up and read primary sources&#8211;while not nefarious, it&#8217;s worth a few journalism points.</p>
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		<title>By: raygirvan</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17900</link>
		<dc:creator>raygirvan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 19:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17900</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Nice one, igb&lt;/i&gt;

Agreed. The limits of it are, as igb says, if you start getting into treasonable deductions. But there are traditional stereotypes, a kind of tacit agreement that only Intelligence organisations and people wearing a big &quot;Investigative Journalist&quot; label should get up to it. It seems to faze these MPs that such research is now within the capacity of anyone with a bit of database-fu (and, as you say, it seems to be a skill underemployed by news reporters these days, when they just wade into a story without doing trivially easy cross-checks on what agenda might be behind it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Nice one, igb</i></p>
<p>Agreed. The limits of it are, as igb says, if you start getting into treasonable deductions. But there are traditional stereotypes, a kind of tacit agreement that only Intelligence organisations and people wearing a big &#8220;Investigative Journalist&#8221; label should get up to it. It seems to faze these MPs that such research is now within the capacity of anyone with a bit of database-fu (and, as you say, it seems to be a skill underemployed by news reporters these days, when they just wade into a story without doing trivially easy cross-checks on what agenda might be behind it).</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Aust</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17897</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Aust</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 14:38:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17897</guid>
		<description>Nice one, igb - I think I was was kind of getting at the same thing eariler on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/#comment-17809&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.

Thinking back, this has always one of the classic non-sequiturs of Official Secrets Act: that something could be viewed by the Govt to be a secret when in fact it was a logical deduction from lots of freely available non-secret information (aka journalism).

A lot of what I think of as &quot;proper&quot; investigative  journalism, and some of the political stuff depended on this kind of &quot;sifting and piece-ing together&quot; (think Woodward and Bernstein). Which is why I am often disappointed (though not surprised) that broadsheet  coverage of science and technology questions doesn&#039;t seem able to do the same thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice one, igb &#8211; I think I was was kind of getting at the same thing eariler on <a href="http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/#comment-17809" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
<p>Thinking back, this has always one of the classic non-sequiturs of Official Secrets Act: that something could be viewed by the Govt to be a secret when in fact it was a logical deduction from lots of freely available non-secret information (aka journalism).</p>
<p>A lot of what I think of as &#8220;proper&#8221; investigative  journalism, and some of the political stuff depended on this kind of &#8220;sifting and piece-ing together&#8221; (think Woodward and Bernstein). Which is why I am often disappointed (though not surprised) that broadsheet  coverage of science and technology questions doesn&#8217;t seem able to do the same thing.</p>
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		<title>By: JoanCrawford</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17893</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanCrawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 10:31:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17893</guid>
		<description>http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20071031.html

Actually, this cartoon is appropriate to most of the site, in fairness.

Made me chuckle, anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20071031.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/dilbert-20071031.html</a></p>
<p>Actually, this cartoon is appropriate to most of the site, in fairness.</p>
<p>Made me chuckle, anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: manigen</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17892</link>
		<dc:creator>manigen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 09:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17892</guid>
		<description>Ramble nothing, that was fascinating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ramble nothing, that was fascinating.</p>
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		<title>By: igb</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17891</link>
		<dc:creator>igb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 07:11:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17891</guid>
		<description>What the MPs in the Minority Report (*) clearly haven&#039;t heard of is the somewhat confusingly named Open Source Intelligence.  There&#039;s a whole subclass of intelligence work, with big computers and clever people, which works on distilling down newspapers, public websites, Usenet (back in the day), blogs (today), plus information whose classification is so nugatory that it&#039;s for practical purposes open (`Restricted&#039; and `Confidential&#039;, clearances honoured more in the breach)  and so on to extract classified material.

That&#039;s why a clearance that permits you access to Secret, say, is also required for sufficient volumes of Confidential that allow information marked Secret to be deduced.   An acquaintance some years ago had had to hold DV (ie sufficient clearance for TS and above) in order to work on an ERP system in the 80s, because one thing being planned from food and clothing deliveries to the nuclear deterrent, from which cruise plans could be deduced.

This is, in passing, why all those stories about ``classified orders for biscuits&#039;&#039; show a lack of understanding.  If you were German and the date was May 1944, and you heard about a large order of biscuits being delivered to the depot Portsmouth but no similar order going to Dover, what would that tell you?

As Groklaw has demonstrated, Eric Raymond&#039;s thing about ``given sufficient eyes, all bugs are shallow&#039;&#039; applies to legal documents: informationa bout the SCO/IBM thing has emerged simply because enough people are prepared to cross-correlate documents and extract latent meaning.  N documents cross-referenced is (N(N-1))/2 comparisons, which requires computers, people or both.

What Ben&#039;s done is take documents that even ten years ago would have been tedious to obtain and search, and extract information that was put there with no real expectation of being read.  Do you remember the row about the inquiry into the Stephen Lawrence affair, where the initial downloadable versions of the evidence contained the addresses of the witnesses, a botch that cost about half a million in relocation?  Not a problem in the past: how many people, Denning&#039;s report into the Timothy Evans affair notwithstanding, buy HMSO reports?  But today, in download city, all documents like that travel quickly.

So the MPs probably live in a  kinder, gentler age in which HMSO reports are more for the private consumption of the political classes who play by Queensbury rules, not for Guardian-reading doctors who might, you know, _use_ the information.

Sorry, bit of a ramble...

ian

(*) Along with Magnolias and Collateral proof that Tom Cruise is actually rather a good, albeit limit, actor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the MPs in the Minority Report (*) clearly haven&#8217;t heard of is the somewhat confusingly named Open Source Intelligence.  There&#8217;s a whole subclass of intelligence work, with big computers and clever people, which works on distilling down newspapers, public websites, Usenet (back in the day), blogs (today), plus information whose classification is so nugatory that it&#8217;s for practical purposes open (`Restricted&#8217; and `Confidential&#8217;, clearances honoured more in the breach)  and so on to extract classified material.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why a clearance that permits you access to Secret, say, is also required for sufficient volumes of Confidential that allow information marked Secret to be deduced.   An acquaintance some years ago had had to hold DV (ie sufficient clearance for TS and above) in order to work on an ERP system in the 80s, because one thing being planned from food and clothing deliveries to the nuclear deterrent, from which cruise plans could be deduced.</p>
<p>This is, in passing, why all those stories about &#8220;classified orders for biscuits&#8221; show a lack of understanding.  If you were German and the date was May 1944, and you heard about a large order of biscuits being delivered to the depot Portsmouth but no similar order going to Dover, what would that tell you?</p>
<p>As Groklaw has demonstrated, Eric Raymond&#8217;s thing about &#8220;given sufficient eyes, all bugs are shallow&#8221; applies to legal documents: informationa bout the SCO/IBM thing has emerged simply because enough people are prepared to cross-correlate documents and extract latent meaning.  N documents cross-referenced is (N(N-1))/2 comparisons, which requires computers, people or both.</p>
<p>What Ben&#8217;s done is take documents that even ten years ago would have been tedious to obtain and search, and extract information that was put there with no real expectation of being read.  Do you remember the row about the inquiry into the Stephen Lawrence affair, where the initial downloadable versions of the evidence contained the addresses of the witnesses, a botch that cost about half a million in relocation?  Not a problem in the past: how many people, Denning&#8217;s report into the Timothy Evans affair notwithstanding, buy HMSO reports?  But today, in download city, all documents like that travel quickly.</p>
<p>So the MPs probably live in a  kinder, gentler age in which HMSO reports are more for the private consumption of the political classes who play by Queensbury rules, not for Guardian-reading doctors who might, you know, _use_ the information.</p>
<p>Sorry, bit of a ramble&#8230;</p>
<p>ian</p>
<p>(*) Along with Magnolias and Collateral proof that Tom Cruise is actually rather a good, albeit limit, actor.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2007/10/oooooh-im-in-the-minority-report/comment-page-2/#comment-17888</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 00:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/?p=561#comment-17888</guid>
		<description>Hmm.  There may be effective reasons why a comment is rejected.  Specific, damaging, and false allegations about the sex life of Sue Lawley perhaps.  Setting up an open house for anyone&#039;s rejected comments is risky.  The DMCA could apply, depending where it&#039;s hosted and how.  You may not be able to tell what&#039;s wrong with comments as they go up.  And the spelling!  My goodness, the spelling!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm.  There may be effective reasons why a comment is rejected.  Specific, damaging, and false allegations about the sex life of Sue Lawley perhaps.  Setting up an open house for anyone&#8217;s rejected comments is risky.  The DMCA could apply, depending where it&#8217;s hosted and how.  You may not be able to tell what&#8217;s wrong with comments as they go up.  And the spelling!  My goodness, the spelling!</p>
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