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	<title>Comments on: A characteristically amateurish and socially inappropriate approach to pitching an article</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
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		<title>By: wayscj</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-28976</link>
		<dc:creator>wayscj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 06:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-28976</guid>
		<description>ed hardy &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy clothing &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy clothing&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy clothing&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy shop &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy shop&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy shop&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
christian audigier &lt;a title=&quot;christian audigier&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;christian audigier&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy cheap &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy cheap&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy cheap&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy outlet &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy outlet&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy outlet&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy sale &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy clothes&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy sale&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy store &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy store&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy store&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy mens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy mens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk/mens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy mens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy womens &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy womens&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk/womens.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy womens&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt;
ed hardy kids &lt;a title=&quot;ed hardy kids&quot; href=&quot;http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk/kids.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;strong&gt;ed hardy kids&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/a&gt; ed hardy kids</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ed hardy <a title="ed hardy" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy</strong></a><br />
ed hardy clothing <a title="ed hardy clothing" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy clothing</strong></a><br />
ed hardy shop <a title="ed hardy shop" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy shop</strong></a><br />
christian audigier <a title="christian audigier" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>christian audigier</strong></a><br />
ed hardy cheap <a title="ed hardy cheap" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy cheap</strong></a><br />
ed hardy outlet <a title="ed hardy outlet" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy outlet</strong></a><br />
ed hardy sale <a title="ed hardy clothes" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy sale</strong></a><br />
ed hardy store <a title="ed hardy store" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy store</strong></a><br />
ed hardy mens <a title="ed hardy mens" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk/mens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy mens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy womens <a title="ed hardy womens" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk/womens.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy womens</strong></a><br />
ed hardy kids <a title="ed hardy kids" href="http://www.edhardyworld.co.uk/kids.html" rel="nofollow"><strong>ed hardy kids</strong></a> ed hardy kids</p>
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		<title>By: stringph</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26848</link>
		<dc:creator>stringph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26848</guid>
		<description>&quot;...there should be an easy way for him to simply say so, so that everyone can move on, without everyone spending a lot of time and money in the Royal Courts of Justice...&quot;

Well, there is a very simple way that people could have moved on without fighting any court case, and that is if Singh had retracted the one sentence:

&quot;This organisation is the respectable face of the chiropractic profession and yet it happily promotes bogus treatments.&quot;

and apologized for the apparent insinuation that the chiropractors are dishonest or negligent in promoting their treatments. 

The point is not what Singh claims to have meant or intended to say, it&#039;s what he *did* say, and what an average reasonable reader could take it to mean. 
It seems quite reasonable to interpret this &quot;happily promote bogus treatments&quot; as meaning &quot;are happy to promote the treatments, despite their being bogus&quot; - which strongly implies that they *know* the treatments are bogus. Else why would Singh specifically complain that they did so &#039;happily&#039;?

Singh is not much of a writer if he doesn&#039;t understand the difference between &#039;they promote treatments that are in fact bogus&#039; and &#039;they happily promote bogus treatments&#039;.

If he wants to defend his statements, it is entirely possible that Singh will succeed in proving in court that the chiropractors were dishonest or negligent. I am confident that a British jury will reach the correct decision (although I would agree that the process is absurdly costly).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;there should be an easy way for him to simply say so, so that everyone can move on, without everyone spending a lot of time and money in the Royal Courts of Justice&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, there is a very simple way that people could have moved on without fighting any court case, and that is if Singh had retracted the one sentence:</p>
<p>&#8220;This organisation is the respectable face of the chiropractic profession and yet it happily promotes bogus treatments.&#8221;</p>
<p>and apologized for the apparent insinuation that the chiropractors are dishonest or negligent in promoting their treatments. </p>
<p>The point is not what Singh claims to have meant or intended to say, it&#8217;s what he *did* say, and what an average reasonable reader could take it to mean.<br />
It seems quite reasonable to interpret this &#8220;happily promote bogus treatments&#8221; as meaning &#8220;are happy to promote the treatments, despite their being bogus&#8221; &#8211; which strongly implies that they *know* the treatments are bogus. Else why would Singh specifically complain that they did so &#8216;happily&#8217;?</p>
<p>Singh is not much of a writer if he doesn&#8217;t understand the difference between &#8216;they promote treatments that are in fact bogus&#8217; and &#8216;they happily promote bogus treatments&#8217;.</p>
<p>If he wants to defend his statements, it is entirely possible that Singh will succeed in proving in court that the chiropractors were dishonest or negligent. I am confident that a British jury will reach the correct decision (although I would agree that the process is absurdly costly).</p>
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		<title>By: pulsetoday</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26706</link>
		<dc:creator>pulsetoday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2009 15:43:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26706</guid>
		<description>Prof Edzard Ernst, Simon Singh&#039;s co-author on Trick or Treatment, has blogged on the subject of chiropractic and the libel case, asking &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=20&amp;storycode=4122913&amp;c=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;whether chiropractors are destroying their own reputation&lt;/a&gt; by making claims about what conditions it can be used to treat which are not backed by good evidence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prof Edzard Ernst, Simon Singh&#8217;s co-author on Trick or Treatment, has blogged on the subject of chiropractic and the libel case, asking <a href="http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/story.asp?sectioncode=20&amp;storycode=4122913&amp;c=1" rel="nofollow">whether chiropractors are destroying their own reputation</a> by making claims about what conditions it can be used to treat which are not backed by good evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: used to be jdc</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26683</link>
		<dc:creator>used to be jdc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 May 2009 16:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26683</guid>
		<description>I take it no-one has yet taken you up on your offer Ben? Shame - I&#039;ve been looking forward to reading this article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I take it no-one has yet taken you up on your offer Ben? Shame &#8211; I&#8217;ve been looking forward to reading this article.</p>
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		<title>By: Squander Two</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26550</link>
		<dc:creator>Squander Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 00:44:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26550</guid>
		<description>Oh, well, &lt;i&gt;The Economist&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;The New Scientist&lt;/i&gt;.  I take it all back.  The BCA are fucked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, well, <i>The Economist</i> and <i>The New Scientist</i>.  I take it all back.  The BCA are fucked.</p>
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		<title>By: stever</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26475</link>
		<dc:creator>stever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 23:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26475</guid>
		<description>squander - media coverage begins in earnest...

its in the economist today:
http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13643973

and new scientist:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227083.000-chiropractic-critic-loses-first-round-in-libel-fight.html

both highly critical of the BCA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>squander &#8211; media coverage begins in earnest&#8230;</p>
<p>its in the economist today:<br />
<a href="http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13643973" rel="nofollow">http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=13643973</a></p>
<p>and new scientist:<br />
<a href="http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227083.000-chiropractic-critic-loses-first-round-in-libel-fight.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20227083.000-chiropractic-critic-loses-first-round-in-libel-fight.html</a></p>
<p>both highly critical of the BCA</p>
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		<title>By: lenny law</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26467</link>
		<dc:creator>lenny law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 18:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26467</guid>
		<description>I did feel that Simon&#039;s chapter on chiropractic in Trick or Treatment rather displayed his personal bias regarding the subject and contained too much anecdotal reportage in an attempt to lend weight to his argument - a technique used by the CAM brigade and not one which we the Enlightened would like to see too much being used on our side of things. I suspect, like previous posters, that a half-decent libel lawyer would pull him to pieces and it might be wiser for him to place a large order at www.humblepie.com and uncork the sauce-bottle before this reaches court.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did feel that Simon&#8217;s chapter on chiropractic in Trick or Treatment rather displayed his personal bias regarding the subject and contained too much anecdotal reportage in an attempt to lend weight to his argument &#8211; a technique used by the CAM brigade and not one which we the Enlightened would like to see too much being used on our side of things. I suspect, like previous posters, that a half-decent libel lawyer would pull him to pieces and it might be wiser for him to place a large order at <a href="http://www.humblepie.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.humblepie.com</a> and uncork the sauce-bottle before this reaches court.</p>
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		<title>By: Squander Two</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26465</link>
		<dc:creator>Squander Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 15:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26465</guid>
		<description>Indy,

Libel law requires someone to actually bring a case for there to be a case.  Perhaps if some MMR scientists considered bringing a libel case against Barnett, they&#039;d win.  Considering some of the things she said -- again, as in this case, making implications about not only the science but the motivations of the practitioners -- perhaps they should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indy,</p>
<p>Libel law requires someone to actually bring a case for there to be a case.  Perhaps if some MMR scientists considered bringing a libel case against Barnett, they&#8217;d win.  Considering some of the things she said &#8212; again, as in this case, making implications about not only the science but the motivations of the practitioners &#8212; perhaps they should.</p>
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		<title>By: Indy</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26461</link>
		<dc:creator>Indy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 06:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26461</guid>
		<description>Does any one else wonder why this law didn&#039;t seem to apply to Jeni Barnett re: MMR? The CAM can say what they want, but science must bite it&#039;s tongue?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does any one else wonder why this law didn&#8217;t seem to apply to Jeni Barnett re: MMR? The CAM can say what they want, but science must bite it&#8217;s tongue?</p>
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		<title>By: Squander Two</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26459</link>
		<dc:creator>Squander Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 23:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26459</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&gt; 4. technically there is a reading of simon’s piece that suggests he thinks the BCA deliberately and knowingly peddle quackery.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, when I read it, that comes across quite strongly as exactly what he means.  I like Singh as well, so I approached the actionable paragraph wanting him to be, if not right, at least not suable.  But every time I re-read it, it still comes across as saying exactly what Justice Eady says it says.  If that&#039;s not what Singh thinks, then he has made quite a serious mistake in wording.

We could probably do with a law which takes scientific claims out of the realm of libel.  (Although, even then, this one isn&#039;t about the scientific claims so much as the implication of dishonesty, so would probably still be happening.  Anyway.)  However, absent such a law, and given that this case has been brought, I&#039;m not convinced Justice Eady made a wrong decision here -- though he is wrong to place such emphasis on the single word &quot;bogus&quot;, when I&#039;d say the meaning was across the whole sentence -- I think following &quot;respectable face of the chiropractic profession&quot; with &quot;and yet&quot; is what does it: that clearly implies that what follows is the opposite of respectability.  I&#039;m also unconvinced by Singh&#039;s defense that the next paragraph demonstrates that his use of the word bogus does not imply dishonesty: it really does no such thing.


&lt;i&gt;&gt; frankly there should be an easy way for him to simply say so, so that everyone can move on, without everyone spending a lot of time and money in the Royal Courts of Justice.&lt;/i&gt;

Absolutely.  There should be a simple apology get-out for libel cases: apologise and retract with at least as much prominence as the original statement, within a certain reasonable timeframe, and the case is dropped.  Seems fair to me. 


Stever,

&lt;i&gt;&gt; They will now have to learn the lesson the hard way - that perusing this sort of case, attempting to stifle a critique of the scientific basis for their practice, will ultimately lead to increased critical scrutiny, far more bad PR than it averts, and is a much bigger threat to their profits in the long term, even if they win this round.&lt;/i&gt;

A noble ideal, but I think you&#039;re overestimating the influence of a few bloggers.  There&#039;s a reason intelligent and successful people use libel law, and that reason is that it works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&gt; 4. technically there is a reading of simon’s piece that suggests he thinks the BCA deliberately and knowingly peddle quackery.</i></p>
<p>Well, when I read it, that comes across quite strongly as exactly what he means.  I like Singh as well, so I approached the actionable paragraph wanting him to be, if not right, at least not suable.  But every time I re-read it, it still comes across as saying exactly what Justice Eady says it says.  If that&#8217;s not what Singh thinks, then he has made quite a serious mistake in wording.</p>
<p>We could probably do with a law which takes scientific claims out of the realm of libel.  (Although, even then, this one isn&#8217;t about the scientific claims so much as the implication of dishonesty, so would probably still be happening.  Anyway.)  However, absent such a law, and given that this case has been brought, I&#8217;m not convinced Justice Eady made a wrong decision here &#8212; though he is wrong to place such emphasis on the single word &#8220;bogus&#8221;, when I&#8217;d say the meaning was across the whole sentence &#8212; I think following &#8220;respectable face of the chiropractic profession&#8221; with &#8220;and yet&#8221; is what does it: that clearly implies that what follows is the opposite of respectability.  I&#8217;m also unconvinced by Singh&#8217;s defense that the next paragraph demonstrates that his use of the word bogus does not imply dishonesty: it really does no such thing.</p>
<p><i>&gt; frankly there should be an easy way for him to simply say so, so that everyone can move on, without everyone spending a lot of time and money in the Royal Courts of Justice.</i></p>
<p>Absolutely.  There should be a simple apology get-out for libel cases: apologise and retract with at least as much prominence as the original statement, within a certain reasonable timeframe, and the case is dropped.  Seems fair to me. </p>
<p>Stever,</p>
<p><i>&gt; They will now have to learn the lesson the hard way &#8211; that perusing this sort of case, attempting to stifle a critique of the scientific basis for their practice, will ultimately lead to increased critical scrutiny, far more bad PR than it averts, and is a much bigger threat to their profits in the long term, even if they win this round.</i></p>
<p>A noble ideal, but I think you&#8217;re overestimating the influence of a few bloggers.  There&#8217;s a reason intelligent and successful people use libel law, and that reason is that it works.</p>
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		<title>By: Beermonkey</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26454</link>
		<dc:creator>Beermonkey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 May 2009 11:05:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26454</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll see if I can get an article or two published - it&#039;s only student press stuff, but the more the merrier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll see if I can get an article or two published &#8211; it&#8217;s only student press stuff, but the more the merrier.</p>
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		<title>By: Twm</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26435</link>
		<dc:creator>Twm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 20:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26435</guid>
		<description>My I refer the honourable Judge to Bill &amp; Ted vs Evil Bill &amp; Ted [1991].</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My I refer the honourable Judge to Bill &amp; Ted vs Evil Bill &amp; Ted [1991].</p>
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		<title>By: pv</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26434</link>
		<dc:creator>pv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 20:02:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26434</guid>
		<description>Is it legitimate to ask if the Judge in the case was a user of, or a client of, a chiropractor?
It would be nice to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it legitimate to ask if the Judge in the case was a user of, or a client of, a chiropractor?<br />
It would be nice to know.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Gray</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26421</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Gray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 09:29:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26421</guid>
		<description>P-sued-oh-Science!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P-sued-oh-Science!</p>
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		<title>By: zeno</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26417</link>
		<dc:creator>zeno</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 22:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26417</guid>
		<description>Stever said: &quot;I for one am raising a toast to the imminent avalanche of critical media and blog engagement with this story.&quot;

Absolutely! Every aspect of the BCA will now be critically examined by those best placed to tear their nonsense apart.

I&#039;ve commented on their 2007 accounts on the forum.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stever said: &#8220;I for one am raising a toast to the imminent avalanche of critical media and blog engagement with this story.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely! Every aspect of the BCA will now be critically examined by those best placed to tear their nonsense apart.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve commented on their 2007 accounts on the forum.</p>
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		<title>By: used to be jdc</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26416</link>
		<dc:creator>used to be jdc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 21:52:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26416</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve emailed my MP with my thoughts on our libel laws and have now written about the BCA&#039;s &quot;Research&quot; page: &lt;a href=&quot;http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/chiropractic-and-the-bca-research-page/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve emailed my MP with my thoughts on our libel laws and have now written about the BCA&#8217;s &#8220;Research&#8221; page: <a href="http://jdc325.wordpress.com/2009/05/08/chiropractic-and-the-bca-research-page/" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: SteveGJ</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26414</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveGJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 21:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26414</guid>
		<description>This has got the potential to be rather bad, and not just for Simon. If it is now ruled that the only interpretation of bogus is one involving deliberate misleading (which is certainly one of the implied meanings, if not the only one) then where does that leave any wording which might also have a meaning that could be construed as applying dishonesty. As an example, the word quack - there is definitely the more than a hint of implied dishonesty in that word. Here&#039;s one such definition from an online dictionary; &quot;A charlatan; a mountebank&quot;. 

So where would that leave quackwatch? The requirement to prove dishonesty rather than mere incompetence is frankly worrying for all. Perhaps we need a new lexicon with an ample choice of picturesque words for such concepts as &quot;incompetent fool&quot;, &quot;ignoramus&quot;, &quot;self delusional&quot; and words like charlatan can then be kept for the true villains. 

The real problem here is the nature of UK libel laws, and the real penalty isn&#039;t going to be damages. It is the enormous sums of money that are spent on the lawyers involved. Perhaps there ought to be a rule in this country, that costs awarded cannot exceed damages. That might limit cases like this - although don&#039;t expect the lawyers or judges to agree (or for that matter many politicians as they are disproportionately lawyers) - too much to lose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This has got the potential to be rather bad, and not just for Simon. If it is now ruled that the only interpretation of bogus is one involving deliberate misleading (which is certainly one of the implied meanings, if not the only one) then where does that leave any wording which might also have a meaning that could be construed as applying dishonesty. As an example, the word quack &#8211; there is definitely the more than a hint of implied dishonesty in that word. Here&#8217;s one such definition from an online dictionary; &#8220;A charlatan; a mountebank&#8221;. </p>
<p>So where would that leave quackwatch? The requirement to prove dishonesty rather than mere incompetence is frankly worrying for all. Perhaps we need a new lexicon with an ample choice of picturesque words for such concepts as &#8220;incompetent fool&#8221;, &#8220;ignoramus&#8221;, &#8220;self delusional&#8221; and words like charlatan can then be kept for the true villains. </p>
<p>The real problem here is the nature of UK libel laws, and the real penalty isn&#8217;t going to be damages. It is the enormous sums of money that are spent on the lawyers involved. Perhaps there ought to be a rule in this country, that costs awarded cannot exceed damages. That might limit cases like this &#8211; although don&#8217;t expect the lawyers or judges to agree (or for that matter many politicians as they are disproportionately lawyers) &#8211; too much to lose.</p>
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		<title>By: stever</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26413</link>
		<dc:creator>stever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 20:48:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26413</guid>
		<description>There is something deeply pathetic, childish and anti-science about the way the BCA have dealt with this. 

They will now have to learn the lesson the hard way - that perusing this sort of case, attempting to stifle a critique of the scientific basis for their practice, will ultimately lead to increased critical scrutiny, far more bad PR than it averts, and is a much bigger threat to their profits in the long term, even if they win this round. 

I for one am raising a toast to the imminent avalanche of critical media and blog engagement with this story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is something deeply pathetic, childish and anti-science about the way the BCA have dealt with this. </p>
<p>They will now have to learn the lesson the hard way &#8211; that perusing this sort of case, attempting to stifle a critique of the scientific basis for their practice, will ultimately lead to increased critical scrutiny, far more bad PR than it averts, and is a much bigger threat to their profits in the long term, even if they win this round. </p>
<p>I for one am raising a toast to the imminent avalanche of critical media and blog engagement with this story.</p>
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		<title>By: peterd102</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26412</link>
		<dc:creator>peterd102</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 19:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26412</guid>
		<description>I think simons argument that there &quot;was not a jot of evidence&quot; related to certain claims the the BCA made for Chiropratic - Not Chiropratic as a whole. The fact that he mentioned some of the symptoms that it has an effect for in &#039;Trick or Treatment&#039; leads me to belive that he does share your veiw.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think simons argument that there &#8220;was not a jot of evidence&#8221; related to certain claims the the BCA made for Chiropratic &#8211; Not Chiropratic as a whole. The fact that he mentioned some of the symptoms that it has an effect for in &#8216;Trick or Treatment&#8217; leads me to belive that he does share your veiw.</p>
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		<title>By: HolfordWatch</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/comment-page-1/#comment-26411</link>
		<dc:creator>HolfordWatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 May 2009 18:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/a-characteristically-amateurish-and-socially-inappropriate-approach-to-pitching-an-article/#comment-26411</guid>
		<description>As Prof. Frizelle remarked so eloquently about a different group of chiropractors, &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/08/professor-frizelles-instant-classic-lets-hear-your-evidence-not-your-legal-muscle/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Let&#039;s see your evidence, not your legal muscle&lt;/a&gt;&quot;.

This interpretation really does put the sued into pseudo-science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Prof. Frizelle remarked so eloquently about a different group of chiropractors, &#8220;<a href="http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/08/professor-frizelles-instant-classic-lets-hear-your-evidence-not-your-legal-muscle/" rel="nofollow">Let&#8217;s see your evidence, not your legal muscle</a>&#8220;.</p>
<p>This interpretation really does put the sued into pseudo-science.</p>
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