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	<title>Comments on: I don&#8217;t really get why people are chatting about Tamiflu as if it&#8217;s all that</title>
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	<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/</link>
	<description>Ben Goldacre&#039;s Bad Science column from the Guardian and more...</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:24:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: blue</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-2/#comment-26963</link>
		<dc:creator>blue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26963</guid>
		<description>I have not read through all the replies, but here&#039;s a thought:

The effectiveness of any medicine is summed up like this.
Total effectiveness = (positive trials results)% + placebo effect%

If the media hype is positive, and sufficiently big, the placebo effect increases because people beleive that the stuff works.

So after reading this article I have just made the stuff less effective :/

Even with that, its still a great  and informative article thanks. I thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have not read through all the replies, but here&#8217;s a thought:</p>
<p>The effectiveness of any medicine is summed up like this.<br />
Total effectiveness = (positive trials results)% + placebo effect%</p>
<p>If the media hype is positive, and sufficiently big, the placebo effect increases because people beleive that the stuff works.</p>
<p>So after reading this article I have just made the stuff less effective :/</p>
<p>Even with that, its still a great  and informative article thanks. I thank you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: anotherfakeid</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-2/#comment-26472</link>
		<dc:creator>anotherfakeid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 12:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26472</guid>
		<description>Comedy is all about timing.  I&#039;m sorry to say that if you have swine flu, you won&#039;t cure it with elderberries: well not until September-ish when they will be out and about.  Probably going to have to make do with the tried and tested remedy for colds and flu.  Cap-full of whisky, lemon juice (only the freshest lemon now), honey (or if you are vegan, agave nectar), and hot water.  Well won&#039;t cure you but enough whisky will make everything seem alright.  In fact, leave out everything else and just use the whisky.  Probably get into trouble mixing whisky with something else anyway.  Do vegans get swine flu?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comedy is all about timing.  I&#8217;m sorry to say that if you have swine flu, you won&#8217;t cure it with elderberries: well not until September-ish when they will be out and about.  Probably going to have to make do with the tried and tested remedy for colds and flu.  Cap-full of whisky, lemon juice (only the freshest lemon now), honey (or if you are vegan, agave nectar), and hot water.  Well won&#8217;t cure you but enough whisky will make everything seem alright.  In fact, leave out everything else and just use the whisky.  Probably get into trouble mixing whisky with something else anyway.  Do vegans get swine flu?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: quiact</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26448</link>
		<dc:creator>quiact</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 20:17:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26448</guid>
		<description>Some facts about Influenza Viruses:

Virus is a Latin word, meaning ‘poison’.  

A virus is more of a very well organized molecular parasite than an actual life form, such as a bacteria.  

The virus cannot grow or reproduce without a host cell.  That means it needs a bird or mammal, such as humans, in order to exist and thrive.  

And the virus has the potential to completely destroy the host in the process in order to exist.
  
The influenza viruses are of what are called orthomyxoviruses, which is a group or family of RNA viruses that are categorized into A, B, and C.  

The Influenza A virus is the one that historically has caused pandemics that have developed in the past.  

About eighty percent of flu cases in the U.S. are type A influenza viruses.      

Influenza vaccinations are the only available method of prevention at this time from the potentially deadly effects of influenza.

Influenza is the virus responsible for the disease that has its name, and it is spread easily to other humans.  

This virus can be deadly to a greater degree when the virus creates a pandemic, which did happen in the United States and other parts of the world less than 100 years ago.  

Other influenza pandemics primarily have occurred in countries in Asia.

For an influenza pandemic to occur, which means a global disease existence and presence, the virus must emerge from another species to humans without a strong immune system- as well as the ability to make more humans ill than normal due to the constant mutation of the influenza virus.

Also, the virus must be highly contagious for a pandemic to occur.  

This particular virus that has been identified is just that. 
That pandemic caused around a half a million deaths in the United States alone.  

This event is now known as the Great Influenza Epidemic.

Understandably there was panic among people worldwide, as the influenza virus itself was not identified until the year 1933.

So, the mystery was rather frightening of what was happening at that time.  

The etiology for the deaths that were happening so rapidly was complete mystery to everyone.

Clearly, at times these influenza viruses are more dangerous than others, and this was one of the strains that clearly very most toxic during that particular epidemic.  

Presently, influenza is once again a very concerning sub-microscopic infectious agent, and we are their potential hosts in order for these viruses to survive.  

The potentially deadly effects of the influenza virus is due to this virus penetrating the host, such as a human being  

Once infected and established in the host, the virus replicates within the cell of the host in the cell’s cytoplasm.  

To survive, the influenza virus targets an enzyme called polymerase, which is what directs the content of this cell to produce proteins the virus needs to exist. 
 
Unlike coryza, influenza expresses symptoms more severely, and usually lasts two weeks until one recovers who has the flu.

Influenza, however, poses a danger to some with compromised immune systems, such as the chronically ill.  

So the risk is greater in such populations, along with women who may be pregnant during the flu season, residents of nursing homes or chronic care facilities.
  
If unprotected by an effective influenza vaccination given to such patient populations, influenza has a greater ability to penetrate hosts and create complications.  

These complications may include deadly diseases, such as bacterial pneumonia or encephalitis.

Symptoms of influenza usually start to express themselves symptomatically about two days or so after being infected with the virus.  

Over 10 percent of the population is infected with this virus every year- resulting in about 200,000 hospitalizations and nearly 40,000 deaths, according to the Center For Disease Control (CDC). 

Those who do survive an influenza infection allow others to obtain antibodies from them to develop other antibodies for future viral outbreaks.  

The antibodies are used to produce vaccines to prevent acquisition of the damaging effects of influenza.  

Yet this is only if the antibodies contained in the influenza vaccine are effective against the suspected particular influenza strains that are present during the influenza season.

Specifically, it is usually what is known as strept pneumo bacteria that kill those due to an infection of these microbes due to being invaded by influenza, ultimately.  

This is the type of bacteria that typically infect a person suffering from influenza who may have compromised immune systems, as mentioned earlier.  

In these cases, the bacteria are allowed to thrive at a higher and more deadly rate.  

On average, it takes over a week for one to die after being infected by influenza that has the power to cause death in particular human populations.  

Pandemic flu outbreaks, such as the one that happened that was mentioned earlier was an influenza strain so powerful that it overkills the cells of its host. 

The influenza virus has this ability on occasion, and its efficacy is dependent on its mutations that have developed over time that make it more powerful than other influenza viruses.

The flu vaccination is trivalent- meaning it contains three viral strains of suspected viruses for flu outbreaks during a particular winter season.  

The viral strains are determined by the World Health Organization, as well as the Centers for Disease Control, and other organizations. 

Yet one should keep in mind that these three strains of influenza may not even exist in a particular flu season.  

The vaccination is a guess, at best, yet is certainly better than the absence of a flu vaccination.

Unfortunately, the influenza vaccine administered last flu season was believed to be largely ineffective due to unsuspected strains of the virus infecting others.  

Although about 140 million injections of this vaccine were administered, this proved to be pointless for preventative medicine for influenza during this season.  

The most recent flu season was fairly mild, according to the CDC.

After giving the vaccination dose to one, it takes about 10 days for that person to build up the immunity for the disease of influenza.   

The months of October to December are recommended to receive this vaccine.  

And the vaccine is about 50 percent effective in offering protection from influenza, according to others, if one calculates the previous flu seasons with flu vaccinations. 
 
Vaccines are a catalyst for antibody production in humans, which protect them against the virus, if the influenza virus happens to present itself within them.  

The influenza vaccines can be given by injection or nasally. 
 
The flu season that is now occurring was supplied with 150 million vaccines in the United States.

However, some studies have shown that this vaccine is rather ineffective based on incidences of the acquisition of the influenza virus by others, initial reports have indicated.

The influenza season peaks between the months of January and March.

The vaccine for this influenza season is manufactured by 6 different companies in preparation for this timeframe of the influenza season.  

Also, it takes manufacturers about 6 months to make and formulate the influenza vaccination.  
 
The influenza vaccine is produced every year according to which type of virus types that may be prevalent during a particular flu season.  

The presence of influenza can be widespread in certain states, yet not others.  The vaccination is recommended to be administered to those who are at high risk, such as the chronically ill. 

Also, it is recommended that those under 18 years of age get the vaccine, as well as those people over the age of 50.  

Pregnant women should receive the immunization.  Health care personnel are always encouraged to get a flu vaccine as well.  

Such populations of those recommended to receive the flu vaccination are those believed to need the protection the vaccine may offer the most.  

This is of concern, as influenza can progress rapidly into the more serious illnesses mentioned earlier that can lead to death.

Anti-virals, on the other hand, decrease greatly the ability for viruses to reproduce once established in a human.  

That seems like it should be a focus during viral seasons instead of any vaccination that exist today regarding the disease of influenza.  

Yet, as with antibiotics, viruses can become resistant to anti-virals as well.

Yet the strains chosen for the influenza vaccine contain what are speculated influenza viruses.  

So the vaccine is ineffective if a new and dominant influenza viral strain that possibly could cause a pandemic happens to be present during an influenza season.

With the influenza virus, again it can have the ability to kill mammals, as well as birds, along with humans at times.  

The concern that there is an influenza strain that exists that has the ability to mutate.  

If this happens, the viruses have the ability to share genetic data between separate life forms as they, multiply within each one of them with ease.  

This is the case with what is known as the Avian Flu, as well as the Swine Flu.

The most recent avian influenza virus was identified in China in 1997.  Called the H5N1 virus subtype, it has the potential to be the next flu pandemic.  

The last Swine Flu outbreak occured in the United States during the mid 1970s.

However, the virus responsible for the pandemic mentioned earlier was an avian influenza, which was called the H1N1 influenza virus.
  
This virus, unlike the human influenza virus, has a longer incubation period- about 5 days.

 Also, H5N1 has the ability to mutate more rapidly, as well as replicate at a similar speed.  

Avian influenza viruses are highly pathogenic.  No one fully understands the influenza virus and its rapid ability to mutate.

This is because this particularly malicious virus is the result of two separate influenza viruses acquiring the same host at the same time.  

As a result of mutual sharing of genetic material between the two viruses, novel attributes are allowed to develop and create a H5N1 that obviously prove to be rather deadly. 

The H5N1 Avian influenza virus seems to have become progressively more pathogenic in the past decade, according to others.

The letters H and N, by the way, stand for the antigens HA and NA-and are the letters of proteins that protrude from the viral shell.  

It is these proteins that mutate so often with the influenza virus, and which is why we continue to be infected with this virus.

With the Avian Influenza existing with the H5N1 strain, millions of birds have been slaughtered due to the danger and unpredictability of this strain.   

The first recorded incidence of human-to-human transmission of the H5N1 virus was believed to be in Thailand in 2004.  

There have been outbreaks of Avian flu in about 10 or 20 countries in the world so far- with Indonesia appearing to be the worst.  

Migratory birds spread this influenza virus between continents.

The pathogenic strength of the H5N1strain varies due to constant re-assortment or switching of genetic material between the viruses.

This essentially creates hybrid modifications of what it was before this occurs due to this re-assortment that makes this virus much more virulent. 

So far, nearly a half a million people worldwide have been infected with this strain.  

Also, about half have died from the infection caused by this H5N1 influenza virus. 

Vaccinations are being developed and reformulated constantly at this time due to the pandemic threat of the H5N1 Influenza virus, and most recently, the swine flu virus.

www.cdc.org/flu/weekly

Dan Abshear</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some facts about Influenza Viruses:</p>
<p>Virus is a Latin word, meaning ‘poison’.  </p>
<p>A virus is more of a very well organized molecular parasite than an actual life form, such as a bacteria.  </p>
<p>The virus cannot grow or reproduce without a host cell.  That means it needs a bird or mammal, such as humans, in order to exist and thrive.  </p>
<p>And the virus has the potential to completely destroy the host in the process in order to exist.</p>
<p>The influenza viruses are of what are called orthomyxoviruses, which is a group or family of RNA viruses that are categorized into A, B, and C.  </p>
<p>The Influenza A virus is the one that historically has caused pandemics that have developed in the past.  </p>
<p>About eighty percent of flu cases in the U.S. are type A influenza viruses.      </p>
<p>Influenza vaccinations are the only available method of prevention at this time from the potentially deadly effects of influenza.</p>
<p>Influenza is the virus responsible for the disease that has its name, and it is spread easily to other humans.  </p>
<p>This virus can be deadly to a greater degree when the virus creates a pandemic, which did happen in the United States and other parts of the world less than 100 years ago.  </p>
<p>Other influenza pandemics primarily have occurred in countries in Asia.</p>
<p>For an influenza pandemic to occur, which means a global disease existence and presence, the virus must emerge from another species to humans without a strong immune system- as well as the ability to make more humans ill than normal due to the constant mutation of the influenza virus.</p>
<p>Also, the virus must be highly contagious for a pandemic to occur.  </p>
<p>This particular virus that has been identified is just that.<br />
That pandemic caused around a half a million deaths in the United States alone.  </p>
<p>This event is now known as the Great Influenza Epidemic.</p>
<p>Understandably there was panic among people worldwide, as the influenza virus itself was not identified until the year 1933.</p>
<p>So, the mystery was rather frightening of what was happening at that time.  </p>
<p>The etiology for the deaths that were happening so rapidly was complete mystery to everyone.</p>
<p>Clearly, at times these influenza viruses are more dangerous than others, and this was one of the strains that clearly very most toxic during that particular epidemic.  </p>
<p>Presently, influenza is once again a very concerning sub-microscopic infectious agent, and we are their potential hosts in order for these viruses to survive.  </p>
<p>The potentially deadly effects of the influenza virus is due to this virus penetrating the host, such as a human being  </p>
<p>Once infected and established in the host, the virus replicates within the cell of the host in the cell’s cytoplasm.  </p>
<p>To survive, the influenza virus targets an enzyme called polymerase, which is what directs the content of this cell to produce proteins the virus needs to exist. </p>
<p>Unlike coryza, influenza expresses symptoms more severely, and usually lasts two weeks until one recovers who has the flu.</p>
<p>Influenza, however, poses a danger to some with compromised immune systems, such as the chronically ill.  </p>
<p>So the risk is greater in such populations, along with women who may be pregnant during the flu season, residents of nursing homes or chronic care facilities.</p>
<p>If unprotected by an effective influenza vaccination given to such patient populations, influenza has a greater ability to penetrate hosts and create complications.  </p>
<p>These complications may include deadly diseases, such as bacterial pneumonia or encephalitis.</p>
<p>Symptoms of influenza usually start to express themselves symptomatically about two days or so after being infected with the virus.  </p>
<p>Over 10 percent of the population is infected with this virus every year- resulting in about 200,000 hospitalizations and nearly 40,000 deaths, according to the Center For Disease Control (CDC). </p>
<p>Those who do survive an influenza infection allow others to obtain antibodies from them to develop other antibodies for future viral outbreaks.  </p>
<p>The antibodies are used to produce vaccines to prevent acquisition of the damaging effects of influenza.  </p>
<p>Yet this is only if the antibodies contained in the influenza vaccine are effective against the suspected particular influenza strains that are present during the influenza season.</p>
<p>Specifically, it is usually what is known as strept pneumo bacteria that kill those due to an infection of these microbes due to being invaded by influenza, ultimately.  </p>
<p>This is the type of bacteria that typically infect a person suffering from influenza who may have compromised immune systems, as mentioned earlier.  </p>
<p>In these cases, the bacteria are allowed to thrive at a higher and more deadly rate.  </p>
<p>On average, it takes over a week for one to die after being infected by influenza that has the power to cause death in particular human populations.  </p>
<p>Pandemic flu outbreaks, such as the one that happened that was mentioned earlier was an influenza strain so powerful that it overkills the cells of its host. </p>
<p>The influenza virus has this ability on occasion, and its efficacy is dependent on its mutations that have developed over time that make it more powerful than other influenza viruses.</p>
<p>The flu vaccination is trivalent- meaning it contains three viral strains of suspected viruses for flu outbreaks during a particular winter season.  </p>
<p>The viral strains are determined by the World Health Organization, as well as the Centers for Disease Control, and other organizations. </p>
<p>Yet one should keep in mind that these three strains of influenza may not even exist in a particular flu season.  </p>
<p>The vaccination is a guess, at best, yet is certainly better than the absence of a flu vaccination.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the influenza vaccine administered last flu season was believed to be largely ineffective due to unsuspected strains of the virus infecting others.  </p>
<p>Although about 140 million injections of this vaccine were administered, this proved to be pointless for preventative medicine for influenza during this season.  </p>
<p>The most recent flu season was fairly mild, according to the CDC.</p>
<p>After giving the vaccination dose to one, it takes about 10 days for that person to build up the immunity for the disease of influenza.   </p>
<p>The months of October to December are recommended to receive this vaccine.  </p>
<p>And the vaccine is about 50 percent effective in offering protection from influenza, according to others, if one calculates the previous flu seasons with flu vaccinations. </p>
<p>Vaccines are a catalyst for antibody production in humans, which protect them against the virus, if the influenza virus happens to present itself within them.  </p>
<p>The influenza vaccines can be given by injection or nasally. </p>
<p>The flu season that is now occurring was supplied with 150 million vaccines in the United States.</p>
<p>However, some studies have shown that this vaccine is rather ineffective based on incidences of the acquisition of the influenza virus by others, initial reports have indicated.</p>
<p>The influenza season peaks between the months of January and March.</p>
<p>The vaccine for this influenza season is manufactured by 6 different companies in preparation for this timeframe of the influenza season.  </p>
<p>Also, it takes manufacturers about 6 months to make and formulate the influenza vaccination.  </p>
<p>The influenza vaccine is produced every year according to which type of virus types that may be prevalent during a particular flu season.  </p>
<p>The presence of influenza can be widespread in certain states, yet not others.  The vaccination is recommended to be administered to those who are at high risk, such as the chronically ill. </p>
<p>Also, it is recommended that those under 18 years of age get the vaccine, as well as those people over the age of 50.  </p>
<p>Pregnant women should receive the immunization.  Health care personnel are always encouraged to get a flu vaccine as well.  </p>
<p>Such populations of those recommended to receive the flu vaccination are those believed to need the protection the vaccine may offer the most.  </p>
<p>This is of concern, as influenza can progress rapidly into the more serious illnesses mentioned earlier that can lead to death.</p>
<p>Anti-virals, on the other hand, decrease greatly the ability for viruses to reproduce once established in a human.  </p>
<p>That seems like it should be a focus during viral seasons instead of any vaccination that exist today regarding the disease of influenza.  </p>
<p>Yet, as with antibiotics, viruses can become resistant to anti-virals as well.</p>
<p>Yet the strains chosen for the influenza vaccine contain what are speculated influenza viruses.  </p>
<p>So the vaccine is ineffective if a new and dominant influenza viral strain that possibly could cause a pandemic happens to be present during an influenza season.</p>
<p>With the influenza virus, again it can have the ability to kill mammals, as well as birds, along with humans at times.  </p>
<p>The concern that there is an influenza strain that exists that has the ability to mutate.  </p>
<p>If this happens, the viruses have the ability to share genetic data between separate life forms as they, multiply within each one of them with ease.  </p>
<p>This is the case with what is known as the Avian Flu, as well as the Swine Flu.</p>
<p>The most recent avian influenza virus was identified in China in 1997.  Called the H5N1 virus subtype, it has the potential to be the next flu pandemic.  </p>
<p>The last Swine Flu outbreak occured in the United States during the mid 1970s.</p>
<p>However, the virus responsible for the pandemic mentioned earlier was an avian influenza, which was called the H1N1 influenza virus.</p>
<p>This virus, unlike the human influenza virus, has a longer incubation period- about 5 days.</p>
<p> Also, H5N1 has the ability to mutate more rapidly, as well as replicate at a similar speed.  </p>
<p>Avian influenza viruses are highly pathogenic.  No one fully understands the influenza virus and its rapid ability to mutate.</p>
<p>This is because this particularly malicious virus is the result of two separate influenza viruses acquiring the same host at the same time.  </p>
<p>As a result of mutual sharing of genetic material between the two viruses, novel attributes are allowed to develop and create a H5N1 that obviously prove to be rather deadly. </p>
<p>The H5N1 Avian influenza virus seems to have become progressively more pathogenic in the past decade, according to others.</p>
<p>The letters H and N, by the way, stand for the antigens HA and NA-and are the letters of proteins that protrude from the viral shell.  </p>
<p>It is these proteins that mutate so often with the influenza virus, and which is why we continue to be infected with this virus.</p>
<p>With the Avian Influenza existing with the H5N1 strain, millions of birds have been slaughtered due to the danger and unpredictability of this strain.   </p>
<p>The first recorded incidence of human-to-human transmission of the H5N1 virus was believed to be in Thailand in 2004.  </p>
<p>There have been outbreaks of Avian flu in about 10 or 20 countries in the world so far- with Indonesia appearing to be the worst.  </p>
<p>Migratory birds spread this influenza virus between continents.</p>
<p>The pathogenic strength of the H5N1strain varies due to constant re-assortment or switching of genetic material between the viruses.</p>
<p>This essentially creates hybrid modifications of what it was before this occurs due to this re-assortment that makes this virus much more virulent. </p>
<p>So far, nearly a half a million people worldwide have been infected with this strain.  </p>
<p>Also, about half have died from the infection caused by this H5N1 influenza virus. </p>
<p>Vaccinations are being developed and reformulated constantly at this time due to the pandemic threat of the H5N1 Influenza virus, and most recently, the swine flu virus.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cdc.org/flu/weekly" rel="nofollow">www.cdc.org/flu/weekly</a></p>
<p>Dan Abshear</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SimonW</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26436</link>
		<dc:creator>SimonW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 May 2009 20:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26436</guid>
		<description>A little reading around suggests that the current seasonal H1N1 flu is resistant to Tamiflu. I&#039;d be interested to know how resistant, as these things are seldom all or nothing.

The Avian flu that hasn&#039;t happened yet also hung around long enough to pick up a mutation to the Neuraminidase in one human which would potentially render some antivirals impotent (including Tamiflu). This specific mutation has been known to happen before.

The (UK) government was thus wise to stock both drugs in large quantities, rather than just one or the other.

And yes they do seem to be presented as some sort of invisible forcefield that stops death and illness by influenza. 

I heard that if you chant the generic names with the correct pronunciation you are also protected.

I already made my prediction of Tamiflu resistant Swine flu being found by the end of the year, I hope I&#039;m wrong but I was fairly conservative because I hate actually being wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little reading around suggests that the current seasonal H1N1 flu is resistant to Tamiflu. I&#8217;d be interested to know how resistant, as these things are seldom all or nothing.</p>
<p>The Avian flu that hasn&#8217;t happened yet also hung around long enough to pick up a mutation to the Neuraminidase in one human which would potentially render some antivirals impotent (including Tamiflu). This specific mutation has been known to happen before.</p>
<p>The (UK) government was thus wise to stock both drugs in large quantities, rather than just one or the other.</p>
<p>And yes they do seem to be presented as some sort of invisible forcefield that stops death and illness by influenza. </p>
<p>I heard that if you chant the generic names with the correct pronunciation you are also protected.</p>
<p>I already made my prediction of Tamiflu resistant Swine flu being found by the end of the year, I hope I&#8217;m wrong but I was fairly conservative because I hate actually being wrong.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jsymes</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26407</link>
		<dc:creator>jsymes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 21:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26407</guid>
		<description>Never mind this blather about tradenames, trademarks etc: Ben, how about a comment on the constant misuse in the media of &quot;pandemic&quot; as a synonym for &quot;epidemic&quot;. Pandemic refers to its spread, epidemic to its intensity. And yet hacks in serious papers refer to, eg, &quot;A mild pandemic of H1N1 would be expected to cause at least three times more deaths and illness than typical seasonal viruses&quot; (Mark Henderson, &quot;Science&quot; Editor, The Times May 6, 2009). A couple of problems there, Mark: what is a &quot;mild pandemic&quot;? One that only spreads to countries with an &quot;R&quot; in them?  No, that would preclude Mexico. And New Zealand (although it has an R if you use its Maori name of Aoteoroa). Second problem: &quot;what are the &quot;seasonal viruses&quot;? Last time I Iooked, Mexico is closer to the Equator than the UK, so I would doubt it has the Spring-Summer-Autumn-Winter cycle we have in the UK. Perhaps in Mexico&#039;s case, it&#039;s something to do with the earthquake seasonal cycle. I don&#039;t mean to be too cynical - well, maybe I do - but I am getting pissed off with the non-science being peddled by even the &quot;serious&quot; media - starting with the misuse of pandemic and epidemic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Never mind this blather about tradenames, trademarks etc: Ben, how about a comment on the constant misuse in the media of &#8220;pandemic&#8221; as a synonym for &#8220;epidemic&#8221;. Pandemic refers to its spread, epidemic to its intensity. And yet hacks in serious papers refer to, eg, &#8220;A mild pandemic of H1N1 would be expected to cause at least three times more deaths and illness than typical seasonal viruses&#8221; (Mark Henderson, &#8220;Science&#8221; Editor, The Times May 6, 2009). A couple of problems there, Mark: what is a &#8220;mild pandemic&#8221;? One that only spreads to countries with an &#8220;R&#8221; in them?  No, that would preclude Mexico. And New Zealand (although it has an R if you use its Maori name of Aoteoroa). Second problem: &#8220;what are the &#8220;seasonal viruses&#8221;? Last time I Iooked, Mexico is closer to the Equator than the UK, so I would doubt it has the Spring-Summer-Autumn-Winter cycle we have in the UK. Perhaps in Mexico&#8217;s case, it&#8217;s something to do with the earthquake seasonal cycle. I don&#8217;t mean to be too cynical &#8211; well, maybe I do &#8211; but I am getting pissed off with the non-science being peddled by even the &#8220;serious&#8221; media &#8211; starting with the misuse of pandemic and epidemic.</p>
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		<title>By: Squander Two</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26404</link>
		<dc:creator>Squander Two</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:49:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26404</guid>
		<description>Aspirin is an interesting episode in trademark law.  As pv said above, it&#039;s a brand name owned by Bayer.  Non-German firms started using it for their generics during the Second World War, on the grounds that there was no way Bayer could take them to court at the time.  Once the War was over, the trademark was thoroughly diluted and could no longer be enforced in those jurisdictions.

It is still a trademark in Germany, though, and the other manufacturers call their generics something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aspirin is an interesting episode in trademark law.  As pv said above, it&#8217;s a brand name owned by Bayer.  Non-German firms started using it for their generics during the Second World War, on the grounds that there was no way Bayer could take them to court at the time.  Once the War was over, the trademark was thoroughly diluted and could no longer be enforced in those jurisdictions.</p>
<p>It is still a trademark in Germany, though, and the other manufacturers call their generics something else.</p>
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		<title>By: andyb123</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26403</link>
		<dc:creator>andyb123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 09:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26403</guid>
		<description>so generic names are deliberately named with something difficult, and give it a swish brandname so people learn the brand name and will always ask for it!

there is conventions though, monoclonal antibodies all end in mab, aptamers end in nib etc.  but would you remember or even try and ask for bevacizumab when avastin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so generic names are deliberately named with something difficult, and give it a swish brandname so people learn the brand name and will always ask for it!</p>
<p>there is conventions though, monoclonal antibodies all end in mab, aptamers end in nib etc.  but would you remember or even try and ask for bevacizumab when avastin?</p>
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		<title>By: SteveGJ</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26402</link>
		<dc:creator>SteveGJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 20:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26402</guid>
		<description>You also need to look out for symptoms of scratchings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You also need to look out for symptoms of scratchings.</p>
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		<title>By: Norman</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26400</link>
		<dc:creator>Norman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 13:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26400</guid>
		<description>@41 JoanCrawford
You know it’s swine flu when you come out in rashers.

That was bad, really really bad! I love it. 

However, on a more serious note, I called the NHS helpline to get advice on swine fly. All I got was crackling.

Cheers,
Norm.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@41 JoanCrawford<br />
You know it’s swine flu when you come out in rashers.</p>
<p>That was bad, really really bad! I love it. </p>
<p>However, on a more serious note, I called the NHS helpline to get advice on swine fly. All I got was crackling.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br />
Norm.</p>
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		<title>By: liquidcow</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26399</link>
		<dc:creator>liquidcow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 May 2009 10:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26399</guid>
		<description>By the way Ben, you needn&#039;t worry about turning down the opportunity to debunk the Swine Flu fears, looks like The Guardian have found someone to do it in your place:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/05/swine-flu-panic

Is it me or are articles like this, and the associated denial, the middle-class form of panic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way Ben, you needn&#8217;t worry about turning down the opportunity to debunk the Swine Flu fears, looks like The Guardian have found someone to do it in your place:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/05/swine-flu-panic" rel="nofollow">www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/may/05/swine-flu-panic</a></p>
<p>Is it me or are articles like this, and the associated denial, the middle-class form of panic?</p>
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		<title>By: DrJG</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26394</link>
		<dc:creator>DrJG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 18:58:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26394</guid>
		<description>@8,maria102:

I&#039;m not surprised at the suggestion that a lot of flu-related deaths involved bacterial pneumonia - antibiotics are a standard treatment for those with severe respiratory complications of flu.

But I am afraid that the &quot;pneumonia vaccination&quot; is in fact only a vaccination against pneumococcus (streptococcus pneumoniae), which is far from the only bacterial cause of pneumonia. The abstract linked to only mentions &quot;common upper respiratory tract bacteria&quot;, and though I am not a microbiologist, I do not think that everyone would include pneumococcus in that category.

In clinical terms, broadly speaking pneumococcus is a common causative organism in acute lobar pneumonia. In endemic influenza, however, the more common respiratory complication in flu, at least in frail elderly patients, is bronchopneumonia, where it is often harder to identify a causative organism without invasive investigations. So far, fortunately, I have seldom had to treat the fit young adults who make up a disproportionate number of deaths in pandemics, so I cannot comment from first hand experience on what type of pneumonia they tend to get, but again, the term used in the abstract &quot;secondary&quot; tends to sugegst bronchopneumonia.

I have no doubt that widespread pneumococcal vaccination could prevent some flu-related deaths, but it is unlikely that it would be any sort of pancetta - sorry, panacea. In addition, in the scenario of a secondary bacterial pneumonia, it may well be that if one possible causative organism is excluded, another will only take its place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@8,maria102:</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not surprised at the suggestion that a lot of flu-related deaths involved bacterial pneumonia &#8211; antibiotics are a standard treatment for those with severe respiratory complications of flu.</p>
<p>But I am afraid that the &#8220;pneumonia vaccination&#8221; is in fact only a vaccination against pneumococcus (streptococcus pneumoniae), which is far from the only bacterial cause of pneumonia. The abstract linked to only mentions &#8220;common upper respiratory tract bacteria&#8221;, and though I am not a microbiologist, I do not think that everyone would include pneumococcus in that category.</p>
<p>In clinical terms, broadly speaking pneumococcus is a common causative organism in acute lobar pneumonia. In endemic influenza, however, the more common respiratory complication in flu, at least in frail elderly patients, is bronchopneumonia, where it is often harder to identify a causative organism without invasive investigations. So far, fortunately, I have seldom had to treat the fit young adults who make up a disproportionate number of deaths in pandemics, so I cannot comment from first hand experience on what type of pneumonia they tend to get, but again, the term used in the abstract &#8220;secondary&#8221; tends to sugegst bronchopneumonia.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that widespread pneumococcal vaccination could prevent some flu-related deaths, but it is unlikely that it would be any sort of pancetta &#8211; sorry, panacea. In addition, in the scenario of a secondary bacterial pneumonia, it may well be that if one possible causative organism is excluded, another will only take its place.</p>
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		<title>By: JoanCrawford</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26391</link>
		<dc:creator>JoanCrawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 12:12:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26391</guid>
		<description>@39

You know it&#039;s swine flu when you come out in rashers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@39</p>
<p>You know it&#8217;s swine flu when you come out in rashers.</p>
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		<title>By: Wireman</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26389</link>
		<dc:creator>Wireman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 02:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26389</guid>
		<description>@S

Cheers. My (old media dictionary) research seems to indicate the following:

Symptomatic: You are displaying signs of having [flu].

Asymptomatic: You think you have [flu].

I&#039;m loving &quot;trotterdammerung&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@S</p>
<p>Cheers. My (old media dictionary) research seems to indicate the following:</p>
<p>Symptomatic: You are displaying signs of having [flu].</p>
<p>Asymptomatic: You think you have [flu].</p>
<p>I&#8217;m loving &#8220;trotterdammerung&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Filias Cupio</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26388</link>
		<dc:creator>Filias Cupio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 May 2009 01:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26388</guid>
		<description>(I&#039;m working purely from Ben&#039;s article - I&#039;m to lazy to look up the full report.)

Taken proactively, there is no reduction in the chance of contracting asymptomatic flu or flu-like. There is, however, about a 2/3 reduction in symptomatic flu. 

What that probably means is that 2/3 of what would have become symptomatic flu become asymptomatic or flu-like, and about the same number of asymptomatic or flu-like are prevented entirely.

People with the milder forms are still infectious. Are they just as infectious as those with full flu?

It looks to me like the most useful applications are proactive. Give it to medical staff during an outbreak, so they will be back on their feet as soon as possible after they (as is likely) get sick themselves, and to reduce the odds of them becoming vectors. 

In an incipient outbreak, give it to contacts of possibly-infectious people. Say an exposed person taking the drug has 20% less chance of becoming infectious in turn, and we manage to dose 50% of the people who get exposed. This means a 10% reduction in the infection growth rate. Say the &#039;generation time&#039; of the virus is 3.5 days, or 100 generations per year, and we start with 1000 cases. 
If the &#039;natural&#039; growth rate is +5% (I.e. each infectious individual infects on average 1.05 other people), with no drugs there are 130,000 cases in a year, with the drug there are 6.
If the natural rate is +10%, with no drugs there are 14 million cases in a year, with drugs there are 1000.
If the natural rate is +15%, no drugs gives 1.2 billion cases, drugs gives 130,000. 

So, either we quash the outbreak entirely, or we very considerably slow it, giving us time to develop a vaccine. 

My maths was very crude: 0.95^100 (to-power-of 100) compared to 1.05^100. In a pandemic, eventually the growth rate falls because most of an infectious person&#039;s contacts have already had the disease and are now immune. However, the major point remains: even a comparatively small change in the growth rate (-10% in my example) has a huge effect over many generations, and for the flu, the generation time is fast.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(I&#8217;m working purely from Ben&#8217;s article &#8211; I&#8217;m to lazy to look up the full report.)</p>
<p>Taken proactively, there is no reduction in the chance of contracting asymptomatic flu or flu-like. There is, however, about a 2/3 reduction in symptomatic flu. </p>
<p>What that probably means is that 2/3 of what would have become symptomatic flu become asymptomatic or flu-like, and about the same number of asymptomatic or flu-like are prevented entirely.</p>
<p>People with the milder forms are still infectious. Are they just as infectious as those with full flu?</p>
<p>It looks to me like the most useful applications are proactive. Give it to medical staff during an outbreak, so they will be back on their feet as soon as possible after they (as is likely) get sick themselves, and to reduce the odds of them becoming vectors. </p>
<p>In an incipient outbreak, give it to contacts of possibly-infectious people. Say an exposed person taking the drug has 20% less chance of becoming infectious in turn, and we manage to dose 50% of the people who get exposed. This means a 10% reduction in the infection growth rate. Say the &#8216;generation time&#8217; of the virus is 3.5 days, or 100 generations per year, and we start with 1000 cases.<br />
If the &#8216;natural&#8217; growth rate is +5% (I.e. each infectious individual infects on average 1.05 other people), with no drugs there are 130,000 cases in a year, with the drug there are 6.<br />
If the natural rate is +10%, with no drugs there are 14 million cases in a year, with drugs there are 1000.<br />
If the natural rate is +15%, no drugs gives 1.2 billion cases, drugs gives 130,000. </p>
<p>So, either we quash the outbreak entirely, or we very considerably slow it, giving us time to develop a vaccine. </p>
<p>My maths was very crude: 0.95^100 (to-power-of 100) compared to 1.05^100. In a pandemic, eventually the growth rate falls because most of an infectious person&#8217;s contacts have already had the disease and are now immune. However, the major point remains: even a comparatively small change in the growth rate (-10% in my example) has a huge effect over many generations, and for the flu, the generation time is fast.</p>
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		<title>By: drgoodhead</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26386</link>
		<dc:creator>drgoodhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 17:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26386</guid>
		<description>Interesting work at the end of 2008/beginning 2009 possibly in Science (?) on the emergence of oseltamivir resistant seasonal influenza strains, including H1N1. Somewhat astonishingly the vast majority of circulating strains were totally resistant to the drug, in the absence of selective pressure, i.e. even when the drug had not been in use. Nuts!! Doesn&#039;t seem to compromise viral fitness. So, looks like the drugs won&#039;t work anyway. Nice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting work at the end of 2008/beginning 2009 possibly in Science (?) on the emergence of oseltamivir resistant seasonal influenza strains, including H1N1. Somewhat astonishingly the vast majority of circulating strains were totally resistant to the drug, in the absence of selective pressure, i.e. even when the drug had not been in use. Nuts!! Doesn&#8217;t seem to compromise viral fitness. So, looks like the drugs won&#8217;t work anyway. Nice.</p>
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		<title>By: Pain relief</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26385</link>
		<dc:creator>Pain relief</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 16:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26385</guid>
		<description>Really(Exactly), to increased the number of cases, and we must see that type of incident will improve the way of helping the people, for it in http://www.findrxonline.com will find the solutions and other ways of offsetting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really(Exactly), to increased the number of cases, and we must see that type of incident will improve the way of helping the people, for it in <a href="http://www.findrxonline.com" rel="nofollow">www.findrxonline.com</a> will find the solutions and other ways of offsetting it.</p>
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		<title>By: S</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26384</link>
		<dc:creator>S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 11:05:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26384</guid>
		<description>@Wireman

Seeing as no-one seems to have answered your question, I think:
Symptomatic - is when you have the flu virus and are displaying flu symptoms
Asymptomatic - when you have the flu virus but don&#039;t exhibit any flu symptoms</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wireman</p>
<p>Seeing as no-one seems to have answered your question, I think:<br />
Symptomatic &#8211; is when you have the flu virus and are displaying flu symptoms<br />
Asymptomatic &#8211; when you have the flu virus but don&#8217;t exhibit any flu symptoms</p>
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		<title>By: HolfordWatch</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26383</link>
		<dc:creator>HolfordWatch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 11:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26383</guid>
		<description>Just to say that &lt;a href=&quot;http://holfordwatch.info/2009/04/28/patrick-holfords-recommendation-for-swine-flu-same-as-those-for-bird-flu-but-with-phrase-substitution/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Patrick Holford has updated his post with yet more references about elderberries&lt;/a&gt; but still nothing more about the logistics of taking 100g of vitamin C by mouth.&lt;blockquote&gt;Viruses get into body cells by puncturing their walls with tiny spikes made of a substance called hemagglutinin. According to research by virologist Madeleine Mumcuoglu, working with Dr Jean Linderman, who discovered interferon, an extract of elderberry disarms these spikes by binding to them and preventing them from penetrating the cell membrane. ‘This was the first discovery,’ said Mumcuoglu. ‘Later I found evidence that elderberry also fights flu virus in other ways.’  In a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9395631&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;double blind controlled trial&lt;/a&gt; she tested the effects of the elderberry extract, called Sambucol, in people diagnosed with any one of a number of strains of flu virus. Their results, published in 1995, showed a significant improvement in symptoms – fever, cough, muscle pain – in 20 per cent of patients within twenty-four hours, and in a further 73 per cent of patients within forty-eight hours. After three days 90 per cent had complete relief of their symptoms compared to another group on a placebo, who look at least six days to recover.  In another &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080016&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;double-blind controlled trial&lt;/a&gt; it cut recovery time in those with influenza by four days. So this is an added bonus.&lt;/blockquote&gt;So, good to see that some parts of that post are improving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to say that <a href="http://holfordwatch.info/2009/04/28/patrick-holfords-recommendation-for-swine-flu-same-as-those-for-bird-flu-but-with-phrase-substitution/" rel="nofollow">Patrick Holford has updated his post with yet more references about elderberries</a> but still nothing more about the logistics of taking 100g of vitamin C by mouth.<br />
<blockquote>Viruses get into body cells by puncturing their walls with tiny spikes made of a substance called hemagglutinin. According to research by virologist Madeleine Mumcuoglu, working with Dr Jean Linderman, who discovered interferon, an extract of elderberry disarms these spikes by binding to them and preventing them from penetrating the cell membrane. ‘This was the first discovery,’ said Mumcuoglu. ‘Later I found evidence that elderberry also fights flu virus in other ways.’  In a <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9395631" rel="nofollow">double blind controlled trial</a> she tested the effects of the elderberry extract, called Sambucol, in people diagnosed with any one of a number of strains of flu virus. Their results, published in 1995, showed a significant improvement in symptoms – fever, cough, muscle pain – in 20 per cent of patients within twenty-four hours, and in a further 73 per cent of patients within forty-eight hours. After three days 90 per cent had complete relief of their symptoms compared to another group on a placebo, who look at least six days to recover.  In another <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15080016" rel="nofollow">double-blind controlled trial</a> it cut recovery time in those with influenza by four days. So this is an added bonus.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, good to see that some parts of that post are improving.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Carnegie</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26381</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Carnegie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 03:20:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26381</guid>
		<description>Influerno?

Trotterdammerung?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Influerno?</p>
<p>Trotterdammerung?</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: lenny law</title>
		<link>http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/comment-page-1/#comment-26380</link>
		<dc:creator>lenny law</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 00:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.badscience.net/2009/05/i-dont-really-get-why-people-are-chatting-about-tamiflu-as-if-its-all-that/#comment-26380</guid>
		<description>Parmageddon?

I don&#039;t think so. How about Flupocalypse?

And as for the old generic / brand names thing.. It&#039;s simple. The generic names are always shorter and simpler in order to encourage busy GPs to write them on the prescription pad, especially when out of patent. Amoxil or Amoxycillin? Augmentin or Co-Amoxiclav? Flagyl or Metronidazole? (I&#039;m a dentist.. we only get to prescribe generic antibiotics..)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parmageddon?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think so. How about Flupocalypse?</p>
<p>And as for the old generic / brand names thing.. It&#8217;s simple. The generic names are always shorter and simpler in order to encourage busy GPs to write them on the prescription pad, especially when out of patent. Amoxil or Amoxycillin? Augmentin or Co-Amoxiclav? Flagyl or Metronidazole? (I&#8217;m a dentist.. we only get to prescribe generic antibiotics..)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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